USA withdraws from the U.N. Human Rights Council

Wambli SkaWambli Ska ModeratorPosts: 26,260 Senior Member
"I want to make it crystal clear that this step is not a retreat from human rights commitments," Haley told the media. "On the contrary, we take this step because our commitment does not allow us to remain a part of a hypocritical and self-serving organization that makes a mockery of human rights."

I think it’s a bold move that shows the world we believe the UN to be the castrated hypocritical bureaocracy it has become.  But I’m interested in you guy’s view.  NPR shockingly has a pretty balanced article on the subject that includes some perspective from previous presidents.  Maybe the news outlets are learning to be a little more balanced???

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621435225/u-s-announces-its-withdrawal-from-u-n-s-human-rights-council
"Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton

Replies

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 1,261 Senior Member
    Sometimes the real story is between the lines. Likely the HRC has been for some time a political crow bar of opportunity for members not in line with the political interests us and our friends. Similar to the corruption of our DOJ.

    The real question then becomes this. Do the interests of our government represent ours??? I don't presume to know the answer and would view other proposed answers carefully.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,616 Senior Member
    The UN HRC has been nothing but a farce for a good long time. The most egregious violators of human rights make up most of the members of the council. The council is a sick joke on the world. Still think the UN should be headquartered outside the U.S.; somewhere appropriate, like Somalia...........................waaaaaaayyyy out in the desert.
    If a Liberal throws a hand grenade at you, pick it up, pull the pin, and throw it back at them.



  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,044 Senior Member
    edited June 20 #4
    Yes. The list of member nations is pretty much a joke. The USA? Apparently we are taking suckling infants away from their mothers. People with dark skin are sentenced disproportionately harsher than people with fairer complexions. Our incarceration rate... we are 4.4% of the world population but have 22% of the world's jailed people-- by far the highest in the world.

    We don't need to be there.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 6,647 Senior Member

    I think it’s a bold move that shows the world we believe the UN to be the castrated hypocritical bureaocracy IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN.
    FIFY

    Let's see here. . .a body composed of a bunch of nations with hugely varying cultures and states of development, all with their own internal problems, are supposed to reach some kind of kind of consensus on what human rights even ARE?  Not only that, they're supposed to externally dictate propriety by imposing their morals within the borders of a sovereign nation whose culture, state of development, and internal problems are totally unfamiliar?

    Yeah. . .THAT sounds like something I want to be involved in - NOT!!!
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,260 Senior Member
    Yes. The list of member nations is pretty much a joke. The USA? Apparently we are taking suckling infants away from their mothers. People with dark skin are sentenced disproportionately harsher than people with fairer complexions. Our incarceration rate... we are 4.4% of the world population but have 22% of the world's jailed people-- by far the highest in the world.

    We don't need to be there.
    I agree with you that the country that incinerated a bunch of folks in Waco with complete impunity has a mighty shaky soapbox to stand on but the jail figure is not a good standard.  If you applied our laws to a country like Nigeria half the country would be in jail.  But they have neither the legal system or infrastructure to do that. This is the same for a huge number of countries.  We are not great, be we are a far cry from Venezuela and Syria.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 14,044 Senior Member
    And don't get me wrong. Trump has taken a lot of heat for engaging with countries that have huge problems abusing human rights like the Saudis and North Koreans but I am ok with that. I don't think isolation tactics are going to work and there is a strong possibility that engagement will help liberalize their cultures where they treat their people better.
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,173 Senior Member
    It was about time!

    Sadly will probably last this presidency, since the next professional politician that becomes POTUS will almost for sure reinstate the US as a member since it's part of the world socialist bureaucracy they so much love to bow at.

    Next measure: Kick the UN out of the US! Let others pay the bill!
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 699 Senior Member
    If you applied our laws to a country like Nigeria half the country would be in jail.
    Having lived in a West African country not too far from Nigeria, I concur with your statement, but argue that your estimate of "half the country" may be too conservative.  Things that are highly illegal here tend to be part of everyday life there.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,285 Senior Member
    How about we withdraw from the US in toto?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 22,616 Senior Member
    Yes. The list of member nations is pretty much a joke. The USA? Apparently we are taking suckling infants away from their mothers. People with dark skin are sentenced disproportionately harsher than people with fairer complexions. Our incarceration rate... we are 4.4% of the world population but have 22% of the world's jailed people-- by far the highest in the world.

    We don't need to be there.
    Breaking the laws tends to get one incarcerated, unless you're high enough in the political food chain to get a pass. Some of the laws in the U.S. could be done away with and that would be a good thing. Teaching people to not break the law would be good, but obeying the law, or not, is a personal choice. You can't legislate behavior of individuals and expect 100% compliance. Not..........................gonna...........................happen. Crime is easy and punishment is harsh for doing so.

    The huge increase in incarceration coincided with the War On Drugs. That war was lost from the get-go. Not really any middle ground on that one; either legalize them all and let people O.D. out of the population, or control them to some extent. Look how legalizing marijuana in some states has INCREASED the supply in not only neighboring states, but states much further away. Nature abhors a vacuum, and will fill it.

    As to taking suckling infants away from their mothers, that has been happening for a VERY LONG TIME. If the mother is arrested for committing a crime, they are separated from their children, and the same for the father that commits a crime. Gonna give parents that commit a crime a Get Out of Jail FREE pass just because they are parents?
    If a Liberal throws a hand grenade at you, pick it up, pull the pin, and throw it back at them.



  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,285 Senior Member
    The "War on Drugs" is a waste of resources, creates additional misery, and solves nothing. Let Darwinism work - the cradle-to-grave nanny statism needs to go!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,260 Senior Member
    If you applied our laws to a country like Nigeria half the country would be in jail.
    Having lived in a West African country not too far from Nigeria, I concur with your statement, but argue that your estimate of "half the country" may be too conservative.  Things that are highly illegal here tend to be part of everyday life there.
    You are probably right, it is a very conservative estimate.  I was tasked a while back to do some business with the big Mobile Company in Nigeria.  My trip from Lagos airport to The Intercontinental Hotel happened with a truck with 4 Security Guards (spelled mercenaries) carrying WELL used AKs tailing my vehicle to prevent my kidnapping.  They asked that I remove my sports coat and sit up front so as to not broadcast my relationship to my driver (who was also armed).  Right off the highway there were HUGE villages of shacks, and outside of some of the bigger shacks there were armed guards with AKs in open view.  I asked my driver if the police ever took notice and he laughed.

    My daily trip to "the office" was the same.  I was not allowed to leave the hotel in the evenings and all meals were brought in to our meetings.  The Hotel was surrounded by 16" of metal fence with two rolls of razor wire on top and a heavy rolling gate.  We had to stop before the gate so the security guards could run mirrors under the car and do a round with the bomb sniffing dogs.  This is all in LAGOS!  Which is supposed to be away from all the Boko Haram nonsense and it's their best city!  I came back and refused to return.  We never finished the deal.

    In comparison with MOST of the world we live in an outright paradise!!!
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 6,553 Senior Member
    In comparison with MOST of the world we live in an outright paradise!!!
    You'd never know by the loud whining of the professional whiner class.
    I HAVE HATED COMMUNISTS EVEN BEFORE THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO LIBERALS AND PROGRESSIVES
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,173 Senior Member

    In comparison with MOST of the world we live in an outright paradise!!!
    If you "do your homework", Yes you do.

    At least down here 99% of our problems are drug/crime/corruption-related; in those African wastelands as in Middle East and some parts of Asia you have to throw tribal and religious feuds into the mix. Solving such awful issues truly needs a cultural revolution among others, or they'll be dragging for another 1,000 years (Time in which probably those AKs you saw will still be running!)
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 31,414 Senior Member
    Yep, some countries for one reason or the other are just plain Sheet Holes as Trump said and wuz criticized for it. The folks whining know, folks living there know it, the news media knows it, most of the world knows, but I reckon it ain't PC to say it aloud.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,260 Senior Member
    In comparison with MOST of the world we live in an outright paradise!!!
    You'd never know by the loud whining of the professional whiner class.
    I personally think anyone who sets an American flag on fire should be sent to some hell hole country to spend a week fending for themselves.  Let's see how much they learn about their reality back home.

    Whenever I have a rough morning and start thinking how bad I have it with work, meetings, obligations, etc. I force my brain to center by thinking about the folks who had to avoid being killed by snipers on the way to work today.  All of a sudden my chair feel a little cushier and my next work phone call is just delightful.
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 31,414 Senior Member
    Folks usually don't know just how good life in the good ole US of A is until they have seen other countries (third world). 
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • 10canyon5310canyon53 Member Posts: 699 Senior Member
    Americans who complain about how bad they have it have never spent much, if any, time outside the US.  They honestly don't realize just how good they have it.  I spent 5 years in Liberia, West Africa in the mid '80's.  The police did not receive a salary.  They lived off bribes and were expected to give some of that to their supervisors in order to keep their positions.  No government functionaries would lift a finger to do their job until they received a "tip" up front.  It was considered normal and was how everything worked.  Shortly after I left in '88 there was a coup that touched off years of civil war and very ugly tribal warfare.  The primary warlord at the time had a crew of personal bodyguards that averaged between 10 to 13 years old and carried fully automatic AK-47's.  You can probably imagine what trouble a group of 10-13 year old boys with machine guns and no adult supervision can get into.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,260 Senior Member
    As Jerm so smartly noted, we are but 4.4% of the total world population, yet we assume that everyone sees the same vase we do.  The fact is that MOST of the world lives under what we would consider totally unacceptable circumstances (I'm being kind in my assessment) and most of the creampuffs smashing Starbucks stores because they did not like the last election would not survive a minute in most of this planet.  And I think that those of us who have experienced it first hand are lucky indeed to have seen the other side of the vase, so we are entitled to chuckle a little to ourselves when others stomp their feet insisting it is solid red.

    Last time I was in Brazil, THIS was happening a block away from my hotel.  I knew it was happening and I slept through it, which pissed off my wife to no end.  My daughter has slept through mortar attacks in the sandbox during deployments.  My son just came back from a year in SK during the most tense period of time in our history since the Armistice.  He took what was going on in stride, just ready for whatever came his way.  Genetics are great no?


    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,260 Senior Member
    And don't get me wrong. Trump has taken a lot of heat for engaging with countries that have huge problems abusing human rights like the Saudis and North Koreans but I am ok with that. I don't think isolation tactics are going to work and there is a strong possibility that engagement will help liberalize their cultures where they treat their people better.
    I agree with you 100%.  I don't don't think we are walking away from engagements as Haley stated.  As you have observed maybe we are just maybe targeting better to more global effect?  

    Being a part of a mess like the UN where every pissant dictator has an equal voice to yours and in many cases a higher pitched scream is just useless in my view.  When the aggregate council takes the time to piss all over Israel but ignores many countries that are doing much worse then it's all just one political charade with an agenda that is completely anti what we need to achieve the way I see it.  Not mention the fact that we have the burden of most of the meal check at this table?
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 1,261 Senior Member
    Life is great here. I think its so good and mistrust other countries so much, I've never been anywhere else. Don't mean I trust my government or believe quitting the HRC was the result of altruistic motives. I don't believe the media hype about it being because of our current sensationalized immigration policies either. Its been planned, likely for multiple reasons including thumbing our nose, and waiting for timing for effect. Hopefully for the best. We'll see.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,260 Senior Member
    Life is great here. I think its so good and mistrust other countries so much, I've never been anywhere else. Don't mean I trust my government or believe quitting the HRC was the result of altruistic motives. I don't believe the media hype about it being because of our current sensationalized immigration policies either. Its been planned, likely for multiple reasons including thumbing our nose, and waiting for timing for effect. Hopefully for the best. We'll see.
    I think Jesus Christ was the last one to do anything for truly altruistic motives.  Everyone else is suspect in my book... 😎
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 1,261 Senior Member
    Life is great here. I think its so good and mistrust other countries so much, I've never been anywhere else. Don't mean I trust my government or believe quitting the HRC was the result of altruistic motives. I don't believe the media hype about it being because of our current sensationalized immigration policies either. Its been planned, likely for multiple reasons including thumbing our nose, and waiting for timing for effect. Hopefully for the best. We'll see.
    I think Jesus Christ was the last one to do anything for truly altruistic motives.  Everyone else is suspect in my book... 😎
    I believe it, regardless of periodic sales pitches to the contrary.
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Moderator Posts: 26,260 Senior Member
    Life is great here. I think its so good and mistrust other countries so much, I've never been anywhere else. Don't mean I trust my government or believe quitting the HRC was the result of altruistic motives. I don't believe the media hype about it being because of our current sensationalized immigration policies either. Its been planned, likely for multiple reasons including thumbing our nose, and waiting for timing for effect. Hopefully for the best. We'll see.
    I think Jesus Christ was the last one to do anything for truly altruistic motives.  Everyone else is suspect in my book... 😎
    I believe it, regardless of periodic sales pitches to the contrary.
    Me too but alpha will be along shortly with a pie chart and some tables showing that the whole crucifixion thing was just a huge stunt to promote his dad's upcoming book, The Bible...
    "Attack rapidly, ruthlessly, viciously, without rest, however tired and hungry you may be, the enemy will be more tired, more hungry. Keep punching." General George S. Patton
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 1,261 Senior Member
    Those charts and tables will only count if they're on clay tablets.📊📈👀
  • TrueTone911TrueTone911 Senior Member Posts: 5,951 Senior Member
    Life is great here. I think its so good and mistrust other countries so much, I've never been anywhere else. Don't mean I trust my government or believe quitting the HRC was the result of altruistic motives. I don't believe the media hype about it being because of our current sensationalized immigration policies either. Its been planned, likely for multiple reasons including thumbing our nose, and waiting for timing for effect. Hopefully for the best. We'll see.
    I think Jesus Christ was the last one to do anything for truly altruistic motives.  Everyone else is suspect in my book... 😎
    I believe it, regardless of periodic sales pitches to the contrary.
    Me too but alpha will be along shortly with a pie chart and some tables showing that the whole crucifixion thing was just a huge stunt to promote his dad's upcoming book, The Bible...
    OK, now THAT is funny!!
    I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.
    Groucho Marx
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 16,285 Senior Member
    Those charts and tables will only count if they're on clay tablets.📊📈👀
    No, no - that was the 1st edition. Some guy named Moses was involved with it. The all new 2nd edition is on papyrus written in "Linear B".
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    Carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it, you may shoot it. If you shoot it, you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody – and he finds out about it – he may be very angry with you. --Jeff Cooper
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