Keystone Kops at Portland State?

TeachTeach Senior MemberPosts: 18,083 Senior Member

A Navy vet tries to break up a fight outside a bar and gets killed by armed rent-a-cops- - - - -what were they doing off campus in the first place? 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m/4cdb00ea-fc9d-377f-9e2f-582a75a31473/ss_man-killed-by-police-was-us.html


Lots of mistakes on both sides, apparently, and the usual amateurish Yahoo news clip doesn't help.  It would take some extraordinary circumstances for me to intervene in somebody else's beef while carrying, for obvious reasons.  A CCW permit does not bestow police powers to someone- - - - -be a good witness/observer unless somebody is in grave danger of dying!

Jerry

  

Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite

Replies

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 1,259 Senior Member
    The news story on tv seemed to indicate that the victim? was using verbal and nonlethal physical force to diffuse a physical confrontation. His CCW fell to the ground. When he attempted to retrieve it, he was fired upon by LEO personnel.

    The video I saw was sketchy and not complete. The background information of the victim's? activities that night was the same.

    A thorough investigation is certainly called for. Perhaps by a non partial outside entity.
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,637 Senior Member
    And, now reporting from Portland...  This was tragic.  He dropped his gun during the scuffle, and he was trying to break up a fight.  A cop saw it on the ground and yelled "Gun! Gun!"  and his instinct appears to be to grab for it since it was his and it dropped.  It has been reported that he was also ordered to drop it and did not, and that is when he was shot.

    Sad.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • alphasigmookiealphasigmookie Senior Member Posts: 7,991 Senior Member
    This is just yet another example of "Gun!" = shot dead by cop. The concept of even the possibility of a "good guy with a gun" is foreign to the vast majority of police officers. Regardless of the threat level, if they see or think they see a gun someone is getting shot. Unfortunately with more good guys carrying guns, more of them are now getting shot by cops. I'm starting to wonder when the calculus shifts too far in the wrong direction? Like now we really have to weigh the odds of having to use a gun for protection vs. the increased odds that carrying a gun will result in getting shot by a cop.
    "Finding out that you have run out of toilet paper is a good example of lack of preparation, buying 10 years worth is silly"
    -DoctorWho
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 7,725 Senior Member
    This does not look good, but one thing we can not forget.  How many people carry a gun every single day of their life and never have an incident?  We hear of every single bad or perceived as bad situation, but never the millions that are of no incident.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,940 Senior Member

    Because when a cop is at a BAR FIGHT and they see a gun, the first thing they think is "must be a good guy with a gun involved in this fight."  But please, continue to Monday morning quarterback something that you've never been involved in.

    Know how to greatly reduce your risk of getting shot?  Don't carry a gun at a bar.  Don't get involved in bar fights while you're carrying a gun.  If you ignore those rules and drop your gun and a cop tells you not to grab it, don't grab it.

    Are there incidents in which law enforcement have made bad shoots?  Yup.  Some feel the need to latch onto it to make their own agenda driven point.  Feel free ignore the MILLIONS of contacts LE has with people across the country every day, some of them carrying guns (lawfully and unlawfully), and nobody gets shot.

  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 2,940 Senior Member
    edited July 3 #7
    And BTW, as for "keystone kops" and "rent-a-cops", in many places, university police are state certified law enforcement officers.  They go to the same academies and training as all the other cops in the state and they have statewide law enforcement credentials.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,206 Senior Member
    Teach said:
    ....

     A CCW permit does not bestow police powers to someone- - - - -be a good witness/observer unless somebody is in grave danger of dying!

    Jerry

      

    But... but...  I have a badge!


    https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/concealed-carry-badge-wallet-black-with-badge-black-leather-gold-ccl-shield-797053100244.do

    I've always had reservations about the thinking behind offering badges to civilians because they have a CCL.

    Anyway, from what I get from the article, the two officers had two years experience as campus police.

    Bradford Betz wrote:
    The two responding campus police officers were identified as Shawn McKenzie and James Dewey. Both men became sworn officers in 2016, two years after Portland State University began allowing campus police to carry firearms. -- Fox News
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/01/man-killed-by-police-was-us-navy-vet-trying-to-break-up-fight-reports-say.html

    Take that for what it's worth.

    I still have a lot of questions regarding what happened. I hope their investigation leads to some honest answers.

    One more thing. For some people, besides tunnel vision in time of crisis, hearing loss can happen. Things like store owners that fight back don't remember hearing their own guns going off and things of that nature.

    It could've just as easily been the navy vet didn't hear any of the officers commands because he was focused on the fracas at hand.

    The incident is just tragic no matter what happened.
    "Facts are stubborn things and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of the facts and evidence" — John Adams
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 416 Member
    A CCW badge? That has to be the gayest thing ive ever seen, and the first time I’ve ever seen it if it’s indeed a real thing. How stupid would someone look flashing that thing like it grants an extra right.
  • cpjcpj Senior Member Posts: 37,651 Senior Member
    A CCW badge? That has to be the gayest thing ive ever seen, and the first time I’ve ever seen it if it’s indeed a real thing. How stupid would someone look flashing that thing like it grants an extra right.
    Oh, it’s real. 
    "I'm here for the guns, hunting, and skirt wearing men."
    Zee
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 13,872 Senior Member
    A CCW badge? That has to be the gayest thing ive ever seen, and the first time I’ve ever seen it if it’s indeed a real thing. How stupid would someone look flashing that thing like it grants an extra right.
    Yep....the stupidness of the concept has been discussed here for years...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 4,120 Senior Member
    If you carry well, the wink of the muzzle flash is all the perp needs to see. Mike
    Decisions have consequences, not everything in life gets an automatic mulligan.
    KSU Firefighter
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 31,412 Senior Member
    Only one member on here The Durango Kid is sanctioned to carry a CCW badge.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,083 Senior Member
    Hmmmmmm- - - - - -does that include the ability to "shoot from the lip"?
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 1,206 Senior Member
    Big Chief said:
    Only one member on here The Durango Kid is sanctioned to carry a CCW badge.
    I thought Buffco had a CCW badge with the Sarcasm upgrade? :o


    "Facts are stubborn things and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of the facts and evidence" — John Adams
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,637 Senior Member
    A little research shows Oregon has some interesting "CCW" laws.  It is legal to carry in a bar.  It is legal to open carry with a CCW permit.  This guy was doing both.   

    I don't agree with this shooting being justified, yet, but if you are an officer and see an unidentified participant in a bar fight reach for a gun on the ground, it could turn out badly.

    D
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
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