Whats this ?

HappySquidHappySquid MemberPosts: 284 Member
edited July 2018 in Second Amendment/Politics #1

The European Union is coming to Washington tomorrow to negotiate a deal on Trade. I have an idea for them. Both the U.S. and the E.U. drop all Tariffs, Barriers and Subsidies! That would finally be called Free Market and Fair Trade! Hope they do it, we are ready - but they won’t!

17:08 - 24 jul. 2018 


Coming from the Guy that said NO to TTIP wich was way more protective for the US??

EU would be all over it.

Replies

  • bisleybisley Senior Member Posts: 10,617 Senior Member
    Trump is representing US interests, not EU interests. WWII has been over for 73 years. The Cold War is over. Europe is whole, again, and American taxpayers no longer wish to pay for the defense of, or subsidize socialist governments. We are still your friends, but we are 20 trillion dollars in debt, and out trade deficits put us further in the hole every day that we continue them.

    By European standards, we are still a wealthy country. But with that kind of debt, and our huge trade deficits, we are fading fast, and one of the ways to slow our own decline is to start making our friends pay their own way. Our government hands out our taxpayer funds like drunken sailors, and we are tired of it.
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    Looks like his negotiating strategy is beginning to pay off with the EU. Others will follow.  Nobody wants a full fledged trade war. There has to be a middle ground that can be reached to get some parity for the US on trade/tariffs.

    It may never be Even Stevens, but the lopsided way it is now needs to change.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 8,590 Senior Member

    The European Union is coming to Washington tomorrow to negotiate a deal on Trade. I have an idea for them. Both the U.S. and the E.U. drop all Tariffs, Barriers and Subsidies! That would finally be called Free Market and Fair Trade! Hope they do it, we are ready - but they won’t!

    17:08 - 24 jul. 2018 


    Coming from the Guy that said NO to TTIP wich was way more protective for the US??

    EU would be all over it.
    This sounds like a good idea, but the liberal media would still scream that Trump is screwing the world. 
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,990 Senior Member
    edited July 2018 #5
    GDP for the quarter just announced a few minutes ago @ 4.1% growth. That's good news.

    EU agreed to import soy beans and LNG. Good for American farmers and oil companies plus will diminish their dependence on Russian fuel for their energy needs. 

    It's a start and there will be some pain felt by some companies/consumers that depend on imports for their businesses.

    We have lost much of our industrial base and MFR jobs with the 'Global Economy' which makes us more and dependent on foreign imports over the years. That could put us in a real pickle if they decided to cut us off.

    What we got was a Rust Belt with closed factories and lost jobs, a real shame. I hope we will get closer back to what we once were.

    MAGA!


     
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 284 Member
    Let me clarify my question; Trump is offering a NO tariff or limitation on anything, something that was unthinkable of in TTIP, there would be mayor limitations for selling to the US , so what is offered to the EU is way better for us than we could get from the US under TTIP. (in the EU they are closely tracking Trumps Twitter account as they do not believe what just was offered to us,  too good to be true)

    As to LNG; companies were already negotiating on purchasing LNG from the US, the only limiting factor is the cost of the processing plants over here, (more than 1 billion € a plant and thats a private bisness matter)
    Soy beans er very attractive now for us as there is plenty on the market and the US cannot sell to China

    btw; both Soy-beans and LNG have been and are on a 0%  import tariff.

    And Governments (US and EU) can make all deals they want but must remember; its the private market companies  that do all the sales and purchasing.

  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 284 Member
    Big Chief said:

    We have lost much of our industrial base and MFR jobs with the 'Global Economy' which makes us more and dependent on foreign imports over the years. That could put us in a real pickle if they decided to cut us off.

    What we got was a Rust Belt with closed factories and lost jobs, a real shame. I hope we will get closer back to what we once were.

    MAGA!


     
    BC is that why GM was announcing they have problems getting the steel they need (from Europe)

  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,329 Senior Member
    He has the negotiation skills of a Manhattan real state developer; whatever the left and specially the media says he's doing wrong, you might consider it as OK.

    Was watching last night a lecture by historian and professor Victor D. Hanson, who claims to be a "conservative democrat" and he said that the government plans for Trump are the easiest ever: He just have to grab the daily editorial of the economic section of a big liberal newspaper (Can't remember if it was the NY Times or Washington Post, but he stated that it's written by a good friend of him) and do exactly the opposite!
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 284 Member
    Antonio I don´t care if he is Dem , Rep or independant but I just cannot understand why he is opposed to a limiting treaty and then gives all away for free ????
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 284 Member
    You puttin in sensible logic into a discussion Wambli ?? ;) 
     I do agree; let free trade take care of things,  politics cannot comprehend that system.
  • das68das68 Posts: 591 Senior Member
    The Man doing business.

    History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen.

    Enoch Powell

  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,346 Senior Member

    Free trade is only possible after giving the other guy an attitude adjustment.  Make it so painful that doing anything else just doesn't come to mind.  I'm all in favor of being "nice" to a competitor- - - -Beeotch-slap him a couple of times, and say "Wouldn't if be nice if I didn't have to do that again?"  As long as I take a hard enough swing out of the gate, he won't have much of an option other than to play nice.

    Jerry

      

    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    So this means that our president is proposing dropping farm subsidies in his effort to promote fair trade around the world or am I misunderstanding something?


  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 284 Member
    Teach said:

    Free trade is only possible after giving the other guy an attitude adjustment.  Make it so painful that doing anything else just doesn't come to mind.  I'm all in favor of being "nice" to a competitor- - - -Beeotch-slap him a couple of times, and say "Wouldn't if be nice if I didn't have to do that again?"  As long as I take a hard enough swing out of the gate, he won't have much of an option other than to play nice.

    Jerry 



    Teach, Your president is NOT Beeotch-slapping the EU,  he is handing out very nice gifts that we 


    could never before get from the US.
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 284 Member
    So this means that our president is proposing dropping farm subsidies in his effort to promote fair trade around the world or am I misunderstanding something?



    Jerminator, that is what President Trump is promising us if we do the same (and we do have a better use for the farm subsidies € )
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    I see his genius now. So that $12 billion handout that Trump is offering to American farmers is the exact opposite of what he is proposing to the rest of the world. Americans would be able to have sugar in their sodas again instead of corn syrup because of price supports keeping sugar artificially high. I won't have to put that crap ethanol in my small engines because of ethanol subsidies and mandates, and he will make pickup trucks more affordable when that 25% tariff on imports is dropped, keeping domestic ones artificially more expensive.

    Maybe I had Trump all wrong. MAGA!
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,957 Senior Member
    There are still government crop quotas still in place for some crops that limit total production and keep prices artificially high. Peanuts is one crop, and there are many others. If you don't have a 'mother may I' permit from the government, then you can't grow the crops for sale on the market.

    Average farm size in TN is 164 acres. Not a lot you can grow on 164 acres and support a family, so there are a lot of farms that supply secondary income, not primary income. Cattle and goats are two big money 'crops' in TN and the prices are always volatile; the prices per hundredweight for cattle and hogs fluctuate pretty wildly, but I notice that the price in the supermarket only goes up; odd about that. And farm equipment prices are always going up. Price out the cost of a 70 h.p. tractor, hay mower, tedder, hay rake, and a round baler, and some other necessary equipment. You could buy a nice house down here, and have money left over for improvements with the same money.

    If you grow row crops for the Farmer's Markets then you're at the mercy  of the weather. Like this year; too much rain has ruined some big cash crops like pumpkins and squash, and hay production is down because you need a few days of clear skies and hot weather to put up hay. Half dried hay that gets rained on for a few days is ruined for the most part. The mold it grows even after getting dried out makes it unfit to feed cattle or anything else.

    And don't even THINK ABOUT growing a few 'ornamental cotton' plants without a permit from the TN Dept. of Agriculture!
    https://extension.tennessee.edu/publications/Documents/W330.pdf

    Government is like a diaper, and should be changed from time, and for the same reason.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    Farming can certainly be a tough business and is hard work. But what I want to know is if we are going to go the way of New Zealand and eliminate our farm subsidies (to make our markets legitimately free) or are we going to increase government intervention (which that extra $12 billion on top of the other $20 billion we pass out every year looks like).

    I am all for free markets and minimal government intervention-- something that HappySquid would also like to see happen in the EU. Politically, I feel Trump would screw himself out of a job if he were to eliminate American price controls and farm subsidies, and I also think his new $12 billion handout is straight out of the Democratic party's play book-- give away "free" stuff paid for with other people's money in exchange for votes. 
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    edited July 2018 #20
    When to guy accross the table from you negotiating says I’m going to hurt your guys you look at him and say “I’ll make sure you don’t.  I’ll give them a subsidy.  What else you got?...”.  


    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh....


    Just negotiation tricks to get to the desired long term goal...  it’s chess...
    So we are going to ultimately get rid of farm subsidies. That will go over like a fart in church with a large segment of his voters.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,957 Senior Member
    Farm subsidies, in their many forms, are not conducive to good business globally or locally. Didja know that there's a WOOL SUBSIDY that is a holdover from WWII that pays sheep ranchers? And acreage allotments for some crops not available to smaller farmers shuts them out to markets in which they could participate. You'd be surprised how much money changes hands 'renting' out all or part of an allotment to those smaller farmers.

    A good deal of those subsidies go to the big corporate farms, not the small farmers, anyway. Most small farmers/ranchers don't qualify for them. And the price supports artificially raise prices on lots of goods. The tariff on sugar needs to be done away with; it was a political move against cheap sugar from the Caribbean, anyway. The sugar lobby in FL has the Army Corps of Engineers and the EPA in their pockets, and have for decades. They've polluted Lake Okeechobee in FL for decades and ruined a couple of rivers with the high fertilizer content in the water released from Lake O, and that goes into the Gulf at Ft. Myers through the Caloosahatchee River, and into the Atlantic through 5 Army COE canals dug a long time ago.

    The U.S. government took over a house of prostitution in Nevada (Mustang Ranch) and it went bankrupt shortly thereafter. That's why the government should NOT be meddling in businesses, no matter what the business is involved in. (How in hell the government bankrupted a cat house is one of those mysteries of life.)
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,957 Senior Member
    Here's something I stumbled on this morning, but I picked myself up and went about my business like nothing happened. :D
    Seriously, it's some graph charts showing the prices for commodities over several decades. With all that government interference, the prices still fluctuated wildly. Thought you might be interested in it, 'specially Jerm; it reinforces his idea of these price supports and government interference in farming being a bad thing, and I TOTALLY agree.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/2532/corn-prices-historical-chart-data

    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


  • Old RonOld Ron Senior Member Posts: 3,726 Senior Member
    When you make someone stop screwing you on deals it gets rough at first because they don't want to stop. Then they see that they need you & fall into line & be fair. Funny how people get mad at Trump for trying to level the trade making it better for all trade not just some. I would like to see if there is a tariff on any products we don't trade with that nation at all. We still subsidize things dating back 100 years. Seems like once a subside get passed it never stops. It is tough to get things passed but seems to be impossible to take them away. Time limits need to be put on every hand out there is. If I put my land in soil bank I would make more than renting it to a farmer to grow crops. That's just wrong.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,110 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    Here's something I stumbled on this morning, but I picked myself up and went about my business like nothing happened. :D
    Seriously, it's some graph charts showing the prices for commodities over several decades. With all that government interference, the prices still fluctuated wildly. Thought you might be interested in it, 'specially Jerm; it reinforces his idea of these price supports and government interference in farming being a bad thing, and I TOTALLY agree.

    https://www.macrotrends.net/2532/corn-prices-historical-chart-data

    I was just a little one back then... but on those charts, corn, wheat, and soybeans shot through the roof between 1972 and 1974. Was that due to the oil embargo or something else in our history?
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,346 Senior Member
    At one time not too long ago, there was a "tobacco base" attached to most farmland in Tennessee.  The goobermint allotted a certain amount of acreage a farmer could plant in tobacco, and if he wanted to plant more, he had to lease, buy, or rent someone else's acreage.  He didn't necessarily have to plant on the land he "rented", but if somebody bought or leased my allotment, that meant I couldn't plant any tobacco as long as it was assigned to someone else.  There used to be a pretty lively trade in "tobacco base" every year during planting time.  Since tobacco has been mostly pushed out by corn hybrids suitable for making ethanol for fuel, I haven's seen a tobacco crop grown around here in years.  
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 25,957 Senior Member
    I was just a little one back then... but on those charts, corn, wheat, and soybeans shot through the roof between 1972 and 1974. Was that due to the oil embargo or something else in our history?
    Don't know about the 'why' of that spike. In '72 I was in boot camp and Basic Electricity and Electronics school, and then to Key West, FL for sonar school. I was busy in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club in 1973 in the Med and we were trying not to get involved in WWIII with the USSR over the Israeli-Egyptian war (Yom Kippur War). The Arab oil embargo probably had something to do with it, though.

    If you look at the early 1970s, there was a HUGE export boom of corn, soybeans, and other crops during that period. That export demand drove prices up.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.


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