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Two Maryland officers injured in shooting had served warrant to wrong apartment

Big ChiefBig Chief Senior MemberPosts: 32,995 Senior Member
edited September 2018 in Personal Defense #1
Resident is lucky they didn't kill him and I'm glad he will not be charged. Sorry the offices got shot, but dang they need check and recheck the addresses on a warrant before bustin someones door down.


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Replies

  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    There's a lot of that story, what little there is of it, that leaves a lot of questions. Sounds like it was a No Knock warrant as there were 9 officers involved. Yell Police! and bust the door open with a ram is more likely. Glad that the officers will recover and that no charges are being filed against the man.

    There is no viable excuse for hitting the wrong apartment/house. None.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,746 Senior Member
    That story reminds me of this one.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/09/09/dallas-cop-who-killed-man-in-his-home-charged-with-manslaughter.html

    How do you "mistake" someone else's apartment for your own? 

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    Close call. Luckily the cop who shot back missed. 
    This 'wrong house' scene happens a bit too often; perhaps it's time police departments instituted a policy that addresses that issue. 
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,618 Senior Member
    It happens, but not all that often.  Luckily no one was killed.  Apparently, the cops knocked and announced, but perhaps were a too eager to kick the door in.  I served a warrant on the wrong apartment once, a minor law suite since there was almost zero intrusion.  It happens.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,618 Senior Member
    No need to get personal, calling me stupid.  People aren't perfect and it was an honest mistake in my case.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,618 Senior Member
    Not making an excuse.  I was wrong and paid for it.  I suppose you base your opinion on numerous search warrants you've served?
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,618 Senior Member
    Or perhaps you've never made a mistake?  
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    EVERYBODY makes mistakes. But with search warrants, the wrong address can put the lives of the dwelling occupants AND the cops in jeopardy of major injury or death. That's a BIG difference from most mistakes that are generally made by us 'lowly civilians'.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,618 Senior Member
    You are thinking of a situation in the OP, where people were shot.  In my case, no one was endangered and we recognized the error immediately.  No guns were drawn, no search was made.  Mistakes "generally" made cause no error; it's the ones that are not general where the problem comes.

    Demanding perfection from LEOs is idle, unless you demand perfection for lowly civilians.  Which isn't possible.  The best we can hope for is to try to do our best.  Perfection is a very elusive goal.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    Wouldn't it be safer to eliminate no knock warrants and apprehend people as they exit the dwelling???

    Too many man hours???

    How much do these occasional mistakes cost???
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,618 Senior Member
    I don't intend to change your mind.  But in 33 years, I made one mistake.  Can you match that?
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    I can't.
    I usually make two or three every 33 minutes.

    My activities are a bit less consequential.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,058 Senior Member
    One time I thought I'd made a mistake, but I was wrong. :wink:
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,618 Senior Member
    cpj said:
    Gene L said:
    Not making an excuse.  I was wrong and paid for it.  I suppose you base your opinion on numerous search warrants you've served?
    Since I’ve served no warrants, I base it on....read the God damned address. Use a computer with google maps. Use a paper map. Drive  by the place.  As the mail lady. Confirm the subjects haven’t changed the address numbers on the house/apartment/hotel room. It’s NOT rocket science. 
    When there is the possibility of an officer getting  shot,  (as in the topic of this thread) or an innocent person getting shot, some diligence is required, and yes, as a matter of fact I DO expect perfection in warrants being served. There’s things law enforcement get a pass on. This isn’t one of those things. 
     
    With that, I’m done. There is zero changing my mind on the subject. 
    Back then Google wasn't invented.  Did drive by the place, naturally.  The house number had been altered.  If you expect perfection, not even God perfection.  You're talking about a thing for which you have zero experience and an inflated expectation level of performance for which I doubt you would expect in any other level of enterprise,  Your level of expectation is expected to a level that's not in the real world, where people are not perfect.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    Can a cop/ex cop ever admit that another cop is falliable? If so, I can’t say I’ve ever seen it.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,058 Senior Member
    Can a cop/ex cop ever admit that another cop is falliable? If so, I can’t say I’ve ever seen it.
    I can't either, and if the cops do happen to be at fault for a given situation, good luck getting justice. They close ranks FAST!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • horselipshorselips Senior Member Posts: 3,628 Senior Member
    The police biz is easily misunderstood by 'civilians' who almost consistently make the perfect the enemy of the good. It is further complicated by the law being both a sword and a shield. You only have to spend an hour or two watching Cops or Live*PD to realize the world is full of squirrels. 
    Trouble is, when police officers make a mistake, or overreact, or they're all yelling at a suspect at once who is instantly confused by the ruckus, sometimes somebody gets killed or seriously injured. Throw in the errors that imperfect human beings statistically must make, and it can become not only a misunderstood biz, but a deadly one. 
    The only solutions are draconian  - allow cops to shoot fleeing suspects, or disarm the police, or any of another half dozen crazy ideas. Or pass and/or repeal a bunch of new and old laws. 
    Until that mess gets sorted out, given the liars and fakers that LEOs have to deal with all friggin' day long, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt...
    ...unless I get pulled over, and some jack-booted Nazi thug writes me a ticket when he could have exercised his discretion and given me a warning. Sorry cops, life ain't fair.  
  • FFLshooterFFLshooter Member Posts: 1,057 Senior Member
    That’s all fine and dandy until the other cops/retired cops defend that cop even when he was dead set in the wrong. That’s what I see alot of and it’s almost cult like just because they are cops. That would be like me defending a hack gunsmith just because he’s also a Gunsmith. I don’t get it. 
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    It's likely the eliment of lethal on the job risk combined with an almost universal resistance to having authority arbitrarily imposed on us individualy that creates a tribalism of mutual protection of sorts within the LEO populace.

    We are grateful for the enforcement of law and order until it lands on us. Then our disdain gets directed at what only moments earlier were our protectors. Receipt of this is likely a bitter pill only truly understood by the recipients.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 25,058 Senior Member
    edited October 2018 #21
    That’s all fine and dandy until the other cops/retired cops defend that cop even when he was dead set in the wrong. That’s what I see alot of and it’s almost cult like just because they are cops. That would be like me defending a hack gunsmith just because he’s also a Gunsmith. I don’t get it. 
    That's right. They close ranks and fast. I know of two "situations", both involving traffic accidents. One of them was definitely caused by a police officer, the other may or may not have been - but there was NO investigation in either case. The "wall of silence" is fast, thorough, and complete.
    Now I am the first person to defend the police - I have nothing but respect and admiration for what is often a crappy, underpaid job and the crap they have to deal with every single day. Its this rank closing that I object to, in the rare cases they're in the wrong.
    When in doubt, I side with the police - but...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • JasonMPDJasonMPD Senior Member Posts: 6,577 Senior Member
    If you wrong, you wrong. 

    And ranks are closed most swiftly by unions—which are mostly unimportant and overpaid. 

    Mistakes in an office are trivial. Mistakes in law enforcement can be dire. Train accordingly and double check everything.  But mistakes will still occur. 
    “There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.” – Will Rogers
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