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• earlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member

  October 2018 #2

  I don't have a can of worms emoji.

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• RugerFan Posts: 2,879 Senior Member

  October 2018 #3

  Trump can't change this with an executive order.  It is clearly spelled.out in the actual.amendment. 
  
  I do agree it needs to be changed. In my opinion, To be a citizen at least 1 of your parents must be a U.S. citizen or you go through the naturalization process. I don't have a problem with making it where if the children are under a certain age, say under 5 yo, when the parents gain citizenship then the children gain citizenship at the same time. 
  

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• tennmike Posts: 27,457 Senior Member

  October 2018 #4

  Well, if one goes back to THE ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE 13TH AND 14TH AMENDMENTS, then yes, it is time to go back to original intent. And the ORIGINAL INTENT was clearly stated in the arguments for BOTH AMENDMENTS. The Progressives changed that meaning to suit their ends. We are one of only a few countries that have that crazy birth citizenship thing for non citizen parents. Something like 6 countries, and NONE in Europe. It's too complicated for me to bother trying to give a weeks worth of history lesson in one post. The information is readily available. Chinese come here on vacation to give birth to anchor babies, and Russians are using Guam for the same purpose. The issue is complicated, but going back to ORIGINAL INTENT OF THE AMENDMENTS would cure it once and for all.
  

    “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
  ― Douglas Adams
  

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• earlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member

  October 2018 #5

  I think the point of contention is.
  
  Can the POTUS establish said original intent with an executive order?
  
  After that point of contention comes the original intent debate. :can of worms:

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• Jermanator Posts: 16,244 Senior Member

  October 2018 #6

  I also hear the line that the original intent of the 2nd Amendment is for muskets since they didn't have AR's back then and never intended us to have them. I would be careful making that argument.
  

  
  

  The 14th Amendment says what it says-- it doesn't matter if I like what it says or not. The idea that a president can nullify a constitutional amendment with an executive order creeps the hell out of me. If you don't like what the amendment says... change the constitution.If not, it opens the door for the next Clinton/Obama/Carter to nullify/modify our rights as they see fit.
  

  
  

  Don't go there. Period.
  

  Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.

  -Thomas Paine

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• Diver43 Posts: 12,775 Senior Member

  October 2018 #7

  Well said Jerm

  Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5

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• earlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member

  October 2018 #8

  Most likely just political chess to inspire support. But he went there, at least rhetorically. The door's open.

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• tennmike Posts: 27,457 Senior Member

  October 2018 #9

  Jermanator said:

  I also hear the line that the original intent of the 2nd Amendment is for muskets since they didn't have AR's back then and never intended us to have them. I would be careful making that argument.
  

  
  

  The 14th Amendment says what it says-- it doesn't matter if I like what it says or not. The idea that a president can nullify a constitutional amendment with an executive order creeps the hell out of me. If you don't like what the amendment says... change the constitution.If not, it opens the door for the next Clinton/Obama/Carter to nullify/modify our rights as they see fit.
  

  
  

  Don't go there. Period.
  

  Nice straw man there. I demand the source of the musket reference AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE 2ND AMENDMENT. SHOW ME THE MUSKET REFERENCE IN THE SECOND AMENDMENT! If your mind is set in stone and afraid to read the Congressional debates on the 13th and 14th Amendments then that's fine. I don't give a rat's crusty butt either way.
  
  For anyone else, some not so light reading. There's plenty of information on the debates online. I've provided three sources. Search them out if you dare. I'm NOT your search monkey. If you want to know the truth then look for it. I hear ignorance is bliss! And willful ignorance doubly so!
  
  https://www.lawliberty.org/2015/08/21/what-did-the-14th-amendment-congress-think-about-birthright-citizenship/
  
  https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/congress-debates-fourteenth-amendment-1866
  
  
  https://www.facinghistory.org/reconstruction-era/congress-debates-fourteenth-amendment
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

    “I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
  ― Douglas Adams
  

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• bisley Posts: 10,815 Senior Member

  October 2018 #10

  Personally, I think that the President does not have the power to amend the Constitution. The answer to this problem, short of a Constitutional Amendment, is to prevent illegal immigration, which is easily within the power of Congress and the President.
  

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• Big Chief Posts: 32,995 Senior Member

  October 2018 #11

  Gonna be interesting.
  

  
  

  It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
  Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
  I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!

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• Make_My_Day Posts: 7,927 Senior Member

  November 2018 #12

  According to one legal talking head I saw last night, Trump is going to test this law, the administration will be sued, and the issue will be resolved in the Supreme Court sooner, rather than never.
  

  JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
  

  THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!

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• bisley Posts: 10,815 Senior Member

  November 2018 #13

  Make_My_Day said:

  According to one legal talking head I saw last night, Trump is going to test this law, the administration will be sued, and the issue will be resolved in the Supreme Court sooner, rather than never.
  

  Actually, I agree with Napolitano on this subject. Trump's declaration that he will change the law by executive fiat is a straw-man, designed to draw attention from the looney left, and bolster his own support and help in the mid-term election. He has already started saying that it might be better for Congress to revoke the birthright citizenship for illegal immigrants.

  
  

  I don't think either would pass muster with the Supreme Court. There is a valid argument to be made by both sides, with the correct answer being dependent on what the court says the definition of 'jurisdiction' is. I think it's likely that at least one of the five so-called 'conservatives' on the Court would say that because illegals are subjected to US and local criminal laws, they are under US jurisdiction.

  
  

  Anyway, the whole issue is moot, if the borders are properly secured. Build more wall and streamline the deportation process, and the caravans will stop, along with the majority of the usual border traffic.
  

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• earlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member

  November 2018 #14

  I just wonder if he'll try to make special provisions for Norwegians???👀

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• 104RFAST Posts: 1,281 Senior Member

  November 2018 #15

  Those who believe the 14th does not grant citizenship to the children of illegals, tourists, foreign embassy staff, and other foreign nationals, hang their hat on the “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” clause, which they back up with the speeches and debates given by the drafters of that clause. The original intent and purpose of the 14th was to guarantee citizenship for the recently emancipated slaves, not the children of lawbreaking foreigners 150 years in the future.
  
  Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/11/the_right_to_birthright_citizenship.html#ixzz5ViE2hHmX 
  Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook
  

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• 10canyon53 Posts: 2,122 Senior Member

  November 2018 #16

  I don't think Trump actually believes he can change it by executive order.  This is just another chess move on his part.
  

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