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Soooooo....we give out a universal wage. Say it’s the cash value of all government “assistance” put together. You really, REALLY think the mopes getting that assistance are gonna go for that? **** no they won’t. “Ummm, we want food stamps and phones and stuff. This ain’t enough money. We won’t have no money if we gots to pay for our own food!”
Socialism that "encourages productive engagement with the capitalist economy" is a contradiction in terms. You can't have it both ways - even if one trusts the Gov't to be oh-so-benign AND to get it right; which of course, neither is possible.
snake284 wrote: »
For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
That flew right over my head Steve. I don't understand what you are saying. Can you elaborate a bit to help me get a grasp? What are you meaning by compliance with the government?
Zorba you're a smart guy. You can think a bit more broadly. Basically every country in the world right now has some mix of capitalism and socialism (at least socialism as defined by most on this forum, which is basically anything the government does except defense) including the US. As an advanced nation we need social safety net programs. We can do those things much better.
Let me explain the safety net this way... People with nothing to lose are dangerous. There will always be an underclass in every society. To be very blunt, they need to be kept fat and happy. I think Alpha is trying to say that while we still need to keep them fat and happy, maybe not as fat and happy as they have been enjoying-- maybe where some of them will get off their asses and do something productive-- take out the trash, mow the lawn.
Keeping the so-called 'underclass' fat and happy is the recipe for perpetuating it. I agree that it will always be with us, but with a goal of trying to eliminate it, it will at least be smaller. An emphasis on stimulating small business is the best thing to solve the lack of jobs and low pay.
And in your socialist utopia of unicorns and glittering rainbows you forget one key element that will instantly vanish with your mythical 'universal basic income' - personal insentive to better oneself. It's utterly laughable that you actually think this would benefit a small business owner. Your drivel is always the same - "what *THEY* should do" or, "what *OTHERS* should do." So here's my question for you. How much of a paycut are YOU willing to sacrifice to restribute YOUR wealth? 50%? 60%, 70%? Is it fair to little Joey, who's been fired from his last 5 jobs, that you make more than him? Perhaps we should cut your wages so that the playing field is equal and that Little Joey earns the exact same as you.
Anyone remember the GM fiasco when they tried to use the GM 350 c.i.d. gas engine as a platform for a diesel engine? Anyone? That came back and bit GM big time.
I'm 100% in favor of a society that rescues physically or mentally handicapped people from living a miserable existence, but even they need incentives to do whatever they are capable of, to feel like a productive citizen.
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I see socialist governments encouraging compliance with policies and standards set by the government and productive engagement with a capitalist economy being secondary.
The government ain't about to be kept as small as possibe on our current course.
How much of our paid out taxes support these hard to find folks?
From what I see on this thread, there ain't no way the guaranteed income plan could ever replace the current social safety net programs. The idea could be spun into this fictitious fat and happy underclass leeching the rest of us dry, and make it as popular as a poorly maintained outhouse on a hot summer day.
― Douglas Adams
Sustainability is still an illusive concept in today's world.
Get too many zeroes strung together under one roof and they start leaking out the bottom and get carted off.
Smaller entities would be better.