I run full load slugs and buckshot in my HD gun, but that's because inconsistent cycling has been reported with reduced loads in an 11-87 running a 21" barrel. If I had a pump, I'd run reduced recoil. As it is, I hesitate to get a pump as the local ranges won't allow me to run a shotgun on standard rifle/pistol targets, and those that do allow shotguns are only trap ranges! No chance to practice! Joining a private range is impractical - don't have near enough time to get my money's worth. So I use the 11-87 because I KNOW that thing. It's not the best situation, but sometimes that's what folks are stuck with...
Maybe our resident scientist can do a test on a live target (pigs) or two? 😁
I figured this would have been good enough info from him: "Well, I have seen both slug and buck be absolutely devastating at close range on soft targets. I have seen soft armor stop buck and slug but, the slug was still fatal. Buck penetration sucks! Slugs win in that area. Buck, while effective up close on soft targets, loses its effectiveness quickly as distance increases. Slugs are effective from point blank to wherever their accuracy renders them unsafe to engage."
Maybe our resident scientist can do a test on a live target (pigs) or two? 😁
I figured this would have been good enough info from him: "Well, I have seen both slug and buck be absolutely devastating at close range on soft targets. I have seen soft armor stop buck and slug but, the slug was still fatal. Buck penetration sucks! Slugs win in that area. Buck, while effective up close on soft targets, loses its effectiveness quickly as distance increases. Slugs are effective from point blank to wherever their accuracy renders them unsafe to engage."
I think Wambli's talking about the mini shells. I could be wrong.
I had a friend in Mineral Wells Texas introduce me to his homemade shorty shells in the late 80's when I was heavily into USPSA 3 gun shooting. It took a lot of modification to get an 1100 to run them reliably and at the time the only autoloading shotgun that we found that could run them without modification was a Benelli as they were recoil operated. Gas guns needed the ports opened up (mainly because of the barrel porting) and the ejector moved forward. Now I've seen adapters that are an ejector that clips into the ejection port forward of the factory ejector.
I made them back then strictly for 3 gun matches as my shotgun held 13 of them and my TEC loaders held five. Mine were 1.8" long with 1-1/8oz of #4 shot at 1300fps out of a ported 22"barrel. I also made slugs that were 1oz at 1100fps. The slugs only had to punch cardboard out to 100yds max where the shotshells had to knock down plates and they were formulated for it.
I keep my HD shotgun with one reduced recoil slug in the chamber and the mag full of reduced recoil buck and more slugs on the side saddle. My theory for my place; if I have to use the shotgun, I want to hit them with a precise Hand of God hit first to get their attention, then start making a lot of holes if necessary until they don't want to play any more. And if I want another slug later, I can load more as I go. As for my use of reduced recoil, also because that's what I have on hand.
Also a side note, the Federal Premium Flite Control buckshot rounds produce some pretty impressive patterns. I use Federal reduced recoil because that's what I have. But I've used the Flite Control rounds a time or two for running courses of fire where I want a tighter group, just to be on the safe side.
I wonder how some BBB (.19 cal) Federal Blackcloud would work instead of buckshot, the stuff goes right through geese with that raised edge, might work on BG's with a heavy coat.
I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
My neck of the woods......thick coats aren’t common.
Again, for my purposes, we are talking from my recliner to the front door or my Man Cave bench to the door. Beyond that, I’m using an AR or pistol for clearing/hunting.
I understand that everyone has their individual needs regarding their level/method of security. Mine has changed/evolved over the years and will continue to do so.
Layers and levels. We all have them.
Example. My recliner has a loaded double barrel shotgun leaning up against the wall behind a curtain next to it in a gun sock. One foot away from me as I type this.
I chose this particular shotgun to be next to the recliner because, in a gun sock to protect it from dust/rust/visual exposer to people, I can still grab it and aim it at the door. Pulling the trigger while it’s still in the gun sock. Twice!! Nothing to cycle. Nothing to pump. Nothing to press. In the sock, I can manipulate the safety, aim the gun, and pull the trigger. In less than seconds.
So, that’s why that gun is there. Getting up from my chair, I have a choice of two additional guns between me and the front door. Depending on the need.
Layers.
Identify the need and employ the measure.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
Joining a private range is impractical - don't have near enough time to get my money's worth.
Don't be too quick to make this assumption. I belong to a private range in Central Florida that is very reasonable. Cost of entry the first year is just under $400 but after that it is only $120 a year plus you have to maintain NRA membership (that is who they are insured through). We have a 100, 200 and 300 yard rifle range, a 200 meter silhouette range, a 7, 10, 15, 25 and 50 yard pistol range, a 25 and 50 yard plinking range (shotguns allowed) and a special use range that is used for action pistol with steel targets. Also have an archery range. For my $120 a year (my wife also has her own membership, $60 a year for a spouse) I have unlimited access 365 days a year from dawn to dusk.
Joining a private range is impractical - don't have near enough time to get my money's worth.
Don't be too quick to make this assumption. I belong to a private range in Central Florida that is very reasonable. Cost of entry the first year is just under $400 but after that it is only $120 a year plus you have to maintain NRA membership (that is who they are insured through). We have a 100, 200 and 300 yard rifle range, a 200 meter silhouette range, a 7, 10, 15, 25 and 50 yard pistol range, a 25 and 50 yard plinking range (shotguns allowed) and a special use range that is used for action pistol with steel targets. Also have an archery range. For my $120 a year (my wife also has her own membership, $60 a year for a spouse) I have unlimited access 365 days a year from dawn to dusk.
No, I've actually researched it and with the cost and number of times a year I could actually get there between job and family obligations, I wouldn't get there often enough to make it financially feasible. I've run spreadsheets, investigated local ranges and their costs, paid visits, plotted routes, all of it. And I won't get into the NRA membership, as that will just shift this thread into the Political forum, or cause the mods to do some deletion...
Put it another way: there's a county range near me. Cost to visit is $10 a day. They offer annual passes for $100, used to be $80. I couldn't get out there 8 times a year, much less 10. Because of family and work. I Don't Have The Time.
The low recoil is supposed to pattern better at longer range, but in bedroom situations I doubt it would matter. Bird shot at 10 feet will do a job without over penetrating. We''re talking Inches of spread at such close range. So it's up to you, I don't see any difference in shot. A slug will penetrate too much for my self defense, but if it won't, it's a helluva blow.
Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
I saw a guy who took a face full of bird shot at about 30 feet in an accident in which his son shot at a low flying dove, not paying attention to his surroundings. The dad walked 50 yards to my truck as soon as he was shot with nothing more than a bunch of pimples and his nose bleeding from the pellets that penetrated his nose. He did bleed all over the bed of my truck while I hauled him to help. His son was hurt far worse. Poor kid. Granted, a little longer than across the bedroom range and I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end. But I personally wouldn’t trust it for HD. From my bedroom to my front door is probably about the same range.
Ill mention it again, the Federal Flite Control wad buckshot shoots the tightest patterns I’ve seen. It’s not just marketing hype. They work. If a shotgun won’t shoot them tight, it’s not the load. I’ve seen it work well in too many guns.
I also read once that the 60's/70's era NYPD had some Ithaca 37's so configured for clearing buildings. In one of John Plaster's books about SOG operators in VN he describes one individual's preference for that type of gun.
So there is past presidence.
Pistols are for show offs, amateurs and the desperate. 12 bore is for killing.
I do know of a shoot keeper who carries his Ithaca 37
Deerslayer Police Special on a quad for when he needs to slamfire 8 x 2&
3/4 birdshot at his "fecking ferals".
Replies
I have seen soft armor stop buck and slug but, the slug was still fatal.
Buck penetration sucks! Slugs win in that area.
Buck, while effective up close on soft targets, loses its effectiveness quickly as distance increases.
Slugs are effective from point blank to wherever their accuracy renders them unsafe to engage."
"The Un-Tactical"
They have a dress code/uniform for those places, for Pete's sake.
Again, for my purposes, we are talking from my recliner to the front door or my Man Cave bench to the door. Beyond that, I’m using an AR or pistol for clearing/hunting.
I understand that everyone has their individual needs regarding their level/method of security. Mine has changed/evolved over the years and will continue to do so.
Layers and levels. We all have them.
Example. My recliner has a loaded double barrel shotgun leaning up against the wall behind a curtain next to it in a gun sock. One foot away from me as I type this.
I chose this particular shotgun to be next to the recliner because, in a gun sock to protect it from dust/rust/visual exposer to people, I can still grab it and aim it at the door. Pulling the trigger while it’s still in the gun sock. Twice!! Nothing to cycle. Nothing to pump. Nothing to press. In the sock, I can manipulate the safety, aim the gun, and pull the trigger. In less than seconds.
So, that’s why that gun is there. Getting up from my chair, I have a choice of two additional guns between me and the front door. Depending on the need.
Layers.
Identify the need and employ the measure.
Put it another way: there's a county range near me. Cost to visit is $10 a day. They offer annual passes for $100, used to be $80. I couldn't get out there 8 times a year, much less 10. Because of family and work.
I
Don't
Have
The
Time.
Ill mention it again, the Federal Flite Control wad buckshot shoots the tightest patterns I’ve seen. It’s not just marketing hype. They work. If a shotgun won’t shoot them tight, it’s not the load. I’ve seen it work well in too many guns.