Home Main Category General Firearms

It really is alot better.

earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
I keep an old Ruger P90 45acp pistol always loaded in the house. It has a DA trigger and decocker, but uses linked tilting breech  similar to a 1911. I switched out the magazine today and cleaned/lubed the pistol. Well doing that I inadvertently unhooked a thin linear wire spring on the trigger bar assembly. It took a bit to diagnose and reassemble the the thing.

Thing is I recently visited the internals of my Colt 1991A1 to upgrade the trigger and mainspring housing.

That trigger bar assembly on the P90 is partially exposed and the trigger won't work without that little inauspicious piece of wire.

All of the mechanicals on the Colt are incased in a steel shell, protected from inadvertent damage and ham handed mishandling.

I used to think the JMB preachers were maybe a bit overzealous. Not anymore. That Colt isn't just a little better, its alot better.

Replies

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,914 Senior Member
    Mr. Browning was years ahead of his peers.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member

    After reading breamfisher's post in a different thread I had to try this. It really does work. I used an old worn out spring to make it easier, but my first try was with the new stiff spring and it worked.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,493 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #4
    You think I didn't try it?

     BTW, original spec spring plugs have a tab on them. You screw the plug onto the spring it's less likely to fly off during disassembly.

    Cylinder & Slide makes repros. Here's a link.

    https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-spring-plugs/1911-auto-mil-spec-recoil-spring-plug-prod26985.aspx
    Overkill is underrated.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    Cool!

    I need one because I switch the slide for 22 conversion when shooting outdoors.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member

    I used to think the JMB preachers were maybe a bit overzealous. Not anymore. That Colt isn't just a little better, its alot better.
    Welcome to the land of wisdom.  When you really get into that design, and leave off some of the modern fiddly bits like ambi safeties, you have a pistol that uses itself as its own disassembly kit, with at least one part that does multiple jobs (sear/disconnector/trigger return/grip safety spring.  And it was all engineered NOT to break, and anything that might catastrophically break (only the extractor comes to mind as a potentially common thing) could probably be knocked out by a blacksmith.  The barrel bushing and link give you a great amount of ability to restore accuracy - in the unlikely event you ever wear it down to the point it becomes necessary.

    A lot of what came later was either a futile effort to protect the idiots from themselves such as DA/SA and mag disconnects (nothing is safe from stupid), or to make the basic concept cheaper.  I regard Glock as the only real improvement in improving both ease of serviceability and reduction of production cost.  It lacks the "but I can turn it into a Bullseye match pistol" versatility, but then that's not what either JMB or Gaston had in mind.  Maybe the Tokarev had some of these same perks, but otherwise, they all had too many lawyers or accountants at the drawing board.

    Many of John's designs weren't perfect.  The 1897 can be regarded as an overcomplex prototype for the modern pump shotgun, and the BAR was a forced rush job because Uncle Sam sat on his thumbs for too long before we decided to play in WWI.  The 1911, however, is the product of what a small arms procurement process SHOULD be, but almost never is.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,659 Senior Member
    Bigslug: What's your opinion of the Hi-Power vs. 1911? Later JMB design, blah, blah.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Bigslug: What's your opinion of the Hi-Power vs. 1911? Later JMB design, blah, blah.
    The High Power was more of Dieudonne Saive's baby than JMB's.  What we know of as the Pattern of 1935 "Browning" High Power doesn't have much in common with what John was working on when he died in 1926 - which if I recall correctly, may have actually been striker-fired along the lines of his FN-1910.

    Personally, I think the P35 isn't nearly as good a pistol as the 1911.  Not only does it have a magazine disconnect, the magazine disconnect pivots with the trigger against the front of the magazine.  The quality of your trigger pull can therefore be influenced by which magazine you put in the gun. . .rough Parkerized magazine = rough trigger.

    The fire control system of the P35 is also VERY weird:

    1.  You pull the trigger (which is inside the frame).  This is connected to an armature that then protrudes upward into the slide in front of the mag well.

    2.  This armature pushes up on the front end of a teeter-totter-like pivoting bar (inside the slide).

    3.  The rear end of that teeter-totter pivots downward to trip the sear (which is located inside the frame)

    4.  This releases the hammer (inside the frame), which impacts the firing pin (inside the slide, of course)

    All of that back and forth between the slide and the frame means that getting a better-than-combat trigger consistency is going to require REALLY tightening up the fit between the slide and frame - and then there's the problem of the mag safety and how mag fit and polish affect your trigger as well.

    In short, I'd take a 9mm 1911 over a BHP any day of the week.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,749 Senior Member
    edited February 2019 #9
    I shot a freinds once. It fit my hand and pointed on target without sight hunting as good or better than any pistol I've ever shot.

    The trigger was a combination of grit and mush that I hadn't expected.

    I've never fired a P38, but a HiPower must feel better in the hand.
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Most of us who grew up with the 1911 never quite accepted the Glock. Those who cut their teeth on the Glock, never quite generated the same respect for the 1911. 

    The BHP was the "Last Gun John Browning" NEVER designed... The prototype in existence at the time of his death bore absolutely NO resemblance to the gun that ended up with the designation P-35 and the often quoted, "Browning's last pistol design..." 

    There have been a lot of guns under the bridge since 1911, and it's more than just nostalgia that keeps JMBs greatest pistol in the hands of today's shooters. But, it wasn't a perfect pistol and if he were alive today, he'd borrow on some of the design concepts we rely on as well. 


    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,738 Senior Member
    I've had both and like both.  I have 2 1911s, but no HPs.  Wish I did.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,954 Senior Member
    Most of us who grew up with the 1911 never quite accepted the Glock. Those who cut their teeth on the Glock, never quite generated the same respect for the 1911. 



    We will have to agree to disagree on the 2nd half of your statement.  I grew up with a Glock, and have learned to respect and appreciate the 1911 as a separate platform more suited to experienced shooters (IMO).  I still carry a Glock frequently, but if I had to choose between the two, the Glock would be gone.  I think the same can be said by most of my peers who have substantial shooting experience.  Admittedly, getting to choose a Kimber or Les Baer to carry *does* make it an easier choice.
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • DanChamberlainDanChamberlain Senior Member Posts: 3,395 Senior Member
    Jeeper... that's coz you are a "refined" gentleman... 
    It's a source of great pride for me, that when my name is googled, one finds book titles and not mug shots. Daniel C. Chamberlain
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,258 Senior Member
    Ahhh. . .the old Glock fans vs. 1911 fans debate.  Is there a category for guys like me who like them both and feel that it's EVERYTHING ELSE that sucks?  :D
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    One thing in the Glock vs. 1911 debate that is rarely mentioned. The STEEL 1911 excels when the need to crack someone on the noggin to get their attention is required; the PLASTIC Glock just doesn't have quite the same effect. :D
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement