Trump Gun Ban-- Did You Turn Them In?

Jermanator · April 2019

The deadline has passed. Did all the bump stock owners turn them in? Making America Great and all...

Jermanator · April 2019

If you didn't, it makes you a felon...

https://reason.com/blog/2019/03/28/donald-trumps-bump-stock-ban-turns-peace

terminator012 · April 2019

He made a compromise really wonder if this will be enforced. Got my eyes on this for sure.

Jermanator · April 2019

And just over 90 days ago... we had a heated conversation about this. It got "moderated" by a mod that felt that the only way to moderate anything heated (or something he didn't personally agree with-- or showed that he was wrong, etc...) was to delete the entire thread. Yes, this is a hot topic. Yes, it needs to be discussed on a gun forum. This goes to the core of what we are-- not something to delete.

Moderators? Yes, please moderate. But as gun owners, we need to talk about this. Please don't zap it again.

Bigslug · April 2019

Yeah, it's still technically a semi-auto firearm, and there's cause for concern there over how that was handled.

Yeah, it's obviously a means to skirt around the NFA, which, like it or not, is the law of the land. What we have with the bump stocks is simply another chapter in the 30+ year saga of "they ban one thing; we find the next loophole. It makes for a useful holding action, but that's really all it is.

My take is this: Instead of making hay over how a cheesy excuse for full auto falls under the scrutiny of the NFA, maybe we need to be making hay over how the NFA falls under the scrutiny of the U.S. Consitution. If we really are headed for a Judiciary Branch that is likely to be making originalist interpretations of things, fighting over table scraps like simulated full auto on a carbine that's more useful in semi anyway seems like a silly way to spend our time.

In short, wake me up when de-regulation of belts, pan mags, water jackets, suppressors, and a sub-26" overall length is on the table.

Jermanator · April 2019

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/977286489410240514

Jermanator · April 2019

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/421875-trump-administration-to-issue-rule-banning-bump-stocks

Accipiter · April 2019

com·pro·mise

/ˈkämprəˌmīz/

noun

1.an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions: "an ability to listen to two sides in a dispute, and devise a compromise acceptable to both"

What concessions were made made by the other side? They will still go after everything else gun owners have. Why give ground at one point when no gains were made in another. He didn’t even try to give bump stocks up to get the hearing protection act passsed or some other ground. Are pistol stabilizers/arm braces next because it is trying to circumvent sbr rules? Maybe the mossberg shockwave and their like will be ruled violations due to their obvious skirting of the short barreled shotgun laws.

My belief is fight tooth and nail for every inch of of ground. Never just give away hard won ground in the gun rights debate. I have never owned a bump stock and never wanted one, but I completely disagree with giving this freedom away. Now legal gun owners become felons if they do not give up their legaly purchased goods. Seems like going backwards to me.

earlyagain · April 2019

Private ownership of firearms should never have been politicised. The hijacking of a constitutional right in order to grow big and wealthy puts that right in future jeopardy.

The Supreme Court and the staggering amount of privately owned guns is at least a hopeful circumstance.

bisley · April 2019

Donald Trump is a politician, regardless of any claims to the contrary. He embraced many liberal ideas and supported liberal politicians for most of his adult life. The result of this is that despite his fairly recent 'epiphany,' in which he believes that he became a conservative, he still gets it wrong occasionally, about what a large part of his constituency will and will not support. He guessed, and probably correctly, that 2A advocates, including the NRA, would not dig in too hard on this concession to the anti-gunners. I sincerely disagree with any concessions made to unreasonable lefty activists, despite having no use, personally, for a bump stock. It is one of several things that Trump has done that I disagree with, but not quite a deal-breaker, if he doesn't string two or three more such mistakes, along with it.

It is a law that is easy for me to obey, and this issue is not the 'hill I want to die on,' in service to the the Constitution. I put it in the same basic category as the Gun Control Act of 1968, which has never been enforced in many states, by the states, themselves, but can be enforced by federal officers. If they choose to waste their enforcement resources on something that will never have one iota of effect on crime, they have that option, and most law-abiding citizens will submit to the law...whenever they get around to it.

breamfisher · April 2019

I'm just glad that the 8 year war on gun ownership is over.

I do find it interesting that the Trump administration has already enacted more regulation than the Obama administration. I mean under the Obama administration he enacted executive orders to allow guns in checked baggage on Amtrak (previously prohibited) and to allow us to carry concealed in national parks, if properly permitted. OTOH we now have an administration that has violated the separation of powers (at Congress's request, no less) and effected some 500,000+ citizens. Did a lot of folks forsee bump stocks being banned the day they came out? Sure. But that's really neither here nor there. BTW, the ATF itself said that bump firing is possible with over the counter items, so banning bump stocks just means that a lot of people are out money, and some possibly out of jobs.

What's maddening is that a few of us predicted that this would happen, but were assured it wouldn't. Now those vocal supporters of the POTUS are notably mute.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/12/second-amendment-news-by-the-numbers-bump-stock-ban-makes-trump-more-of-a-gun-control-president-than-obama-ever-was/

bullsi1911 · April 2019

A lot of us DID predict this, especially when looking at Trump’s first run for the presidency in 2000 as part of the “Reform Party”. Part of his platform was suing Alcohol companies (like tobacco), universal healthcare, and wanted gun control. He also said he would want Oprah as his VP.

Still better than Hillary, but he is not, and has not been a staunch conservative/ republican or supporter of conservative ideals.

Jayhawker · April 2019

Jermanator said:

Moderators? Yes, please moderate. But as gun owners, we need to talk about this. Please don't zap it again.

Whether or not this post gets zapped is completely up to the folks posting...keep it civil and there won't be an issue

breamfisher · April 2019

I wouldn't say he was better than Hilary, because the reality is we don't know. Just like we don't know how Al Gore would have handled Sept. 11 as POTUS, Wendell Wilkie would have guided the US in WWII, or what would have happened if Hitler had let competent generals lead in WWII.

I will say he's probably better than Hillary, but the reality is it's not a definite. She coulda been stuck with a Republican Congress and been hamstrung. It's highly likely he's a better POTUS than she would have been, but for a definitive, well, we really don't know.

Again, I'll stand by my statement that the Trump Administration has curtailed firearms rights more than the Obama administration, who actually did more to recognize those rights.

earlyagain · April 2019

Inspite of the almost complete absence of gun control legislation and executive action from the Obama administration, we still had nation wide hyperbolic fear mongering propaganda causing panic and ammo and ammo component shortages beyond pandemic margins.

All the fault of the insert derogatory disparagement here Democrats. No fault at all from the righteous Right, or the NRA.

tennmike · April 2019

Bump stocks were an answer to a question not asked. They were fun as long as you could feed the rifle, but were hard on the reciprocating parts. A slightly more expensive binary trigger is much better in that it allows extremely rapid fire compared to the standard trigger, and also allows for more accurate fire. Having fired my share of full autos, I'm not 'Jonesing' to do that anymore as it is a waste of ammunition. Train your 'booger hook' to fire rapidly in semiauto and you'll increase speed of fire to controllable accurate rapid fire, or buy a binary trigger and learn to fire accurately and rapidly. And if you're willing to put in some trigger time, the binary triggers are highly susceptible to that bump firing. Most people are too lazy to do that, though.

And there is already a pistol grip 'bump fire' system already being tested by some enterprising folk. Stop up one hole and the enterprising 'mice' will learn and step up their game accordingly.

There are also a couple of battery powered electronic means to trip the sear and fire full auto that the majority of shooters don't know about, and neither does the ATF. None of them are readily apparent to someone looking at the rifle, either. Like I said, mice learn to avoid the trap.

And you DON'T have to turn them in if you deactivate the bump stock per the rules. That's cutting it into three pieces per ATF. Or you can do what most folk are doing, which is not doing anything other than replacing the bump stock with a standard stock of some kind. There's some serious civil disobedience going on.

JerryBobCo · April 2019

I turned all zero of my bump stocks in. Hell, I never even heard of them until that evil wacko on Vegas used on to shoot all those people.

I think we should bank high rise buildings and large gatherings of people to make it more difficult for mass shootings.,

tennmike · April 2019

It would make more sense to just arm everybody regardless of legal status and let the problem work itself out.

CaliFFL · April 2019

Say what you will, but this sets a precedent. The next president (or this one) can declare military-styled semiautos as "destructive devices" and *poof* we are all felons.

Would this be the hill worth dying on?

Bigslug · April 2019

CaliFFL said:

Say what you will, but this sets a precedent. The next president (or this one) can declare military-styled semiautos as "destructive devices" and *poof* we are all felons.

Would this be the hill worth dying on?

Well. . it's worth pondering that the number of JUST AR-15's in current circulation - thanks to the combined efforts of the Clinton and Obama Administrations - may well equal or exceed the total number of small arms that we kicked out to suppress both the Third Reich and Imperial Japan.

CaliFFL · April 2019

Nobody batted an eye (not even some members of this forum) at a half million units. The number is irrelevant. They want semiautos banned and this is abomination is now precedent. One or two more mass shootings is all it takes.

earlyagain · April 2019

An entire juggernaut industry including satellite support industries has been created, and metastasized beyond ability to quantify. It was fed by fear some based in reality, some fictitious, and successfully marketed by real world attributes into into homes, hamlets, villages, cities, and institutions nation wide. Saying the AR platform is prolific is undetstated in the extreme.

Im not foolish enough to deny the possibility, but I can't imagine what sudden prohibition would look like or what the scope of public back lash could grow into.

jaywapti · April 2019

JerryBobCo said:

I turned all zero of my bump stocks in. Hell, I never even heard of them until that evil wacko on Vegas used on to shoot all those people.

I'm with Jerry on this, I never saw or heard of them until Vegas, personally i have no need or use for one.

JAY

CaliFFL · April 2019

earlyagain said:

An entire juggernaut industry including satellite support industries has been created, and metastasized beyond ability to quantify. It was fed by fear some based in reality, some fictitious, and successfully marketed by real world attributes into into homes, hamlets, villages, cities, and institutions nation wide. Saying the AR platform is prolific is undetstated in the extreme.

Im not foolish enough to deny the possibility, but I can't imagine what sudden prohibition would look like or what the scope of public back lash could grow into.

Didn't matter with Prohibition I. At least that failure was a constitutional amendment.

And with Prohibition I, we know what public backlash (rebellion) turned into.

bisley · April 2019

This is just one more issue that the left is using as a wedge to divide and conquer conservatives and libertarians, among themselves, and against each other. It makes them weak against any opposition force that can hold its 'soldiers' together, by whatever means, until the manufactured crisis is resolved. The players on the left have successfully set themselves up as the arbiters of whether a crisis really exists, and when it has been resolved. Mostly, it works, simply because any free society is made up of individuals who think for themselves and won't give that up to support a 'cause.' With their majority control of television news, social media, and the entertainment industry, they can control minority views, by making them appear to be the majority. They have created coalitions consisting of poorly informed and highly emotional people who will believe their lies and accept the anecdotal evidence that they throw out as actual proof.

The point, here, is that humans tend to make judgements based on their own personal priorities, and the overwhelming majority of gun owners know that bump stocks are irrelevant to the main question of how to prevent sociopaths from acting out their fantasies. In reality, the instruments of destruction that these sociopaths choose make little or no difference, once they have actually made the commitment to kill defenseless human beings. There have always been suicidal persons among us - this recent upturn in mass murders is just the result of some phenomenon that the 'experts' have not figured out, that causes suicidal people to believe that taking others with them will give them some kind of eternal 'nirvana.' Obviously, radical Islam has helped to awaken a belief in this sort of acting out that transcends politics and traditional religion.

The left has no interest in solving the question of how to identify these potential killers, or what to do with them if they are identified, because their only goal is to create chaotic situations that assist them in manipulating people by exploiting their emotions.

All of these 'movements' to apply irrelevant government fixes to bewildering behaviors by a tiny segment of the population are in service to left-wing ideologies that will otherwise be rejected out-of-hand by sensible, but poorly informed citizens. The left has made a science out of manipulating normal people and how to influence them to band together against ideas that would never accept, if they actually understood them. It didn't happen overnight - it just seemed to, because of the rapid proliferation of social media. The world is now filled with people who suddenly believe that the rest of the world gives a damn about them, and they want to make their mark.

Bump stocks, high capacity magazines, and all of the other manufactured controversies that surround 2A issues are simply misdirections that are intended to divert thinking people from asking the right questions to their government representatives, and demanding that they find the correct answers to them. It is a tactic used in every strategy to overcome an 'enemy,' whether it be a military war, a football game, or a game of Monopoly.

earlyagain · April 2019

Yep.
We should vote for a Republican President that would tackle all those real issues instead of imposing more gun control like banning bump stocks. Nobody needs those anyway.

bisley · April 2019

The guy was a Democrat for 50 years - what do you expect? He used to be down for all of the incremental subtractions of our freedoms. A recovering alcoholic gets more slack when he falls off the wagon than Trump does for his occasional backsliding. I thought you guys gave credit for just trying, and were forgiving of the occasional failures to toe the party line.

tennmike · April 2019

I'm not worried about the bump stock ban and destruction or turn-in order as much as the fact that the ruling can be used to ban semiauto firearms of all types due to the new definitions generated. That there seems to be some serious civil disobedience going on regarding that destruction or turn-in of the bump stocks says a lot, and it's good.

The dweebs in Congress know full well that a ban and confiscation order on semiautomatics would be a bloodbath. More firearm owning citizens by far than county, state, and Federal LE combined, and if the military were brought in, then it would be full on civil war. But they have patience; a few more generations of good little Democratic Socialists and they may reach a point where their 'useful idiot cannon fodder' will be unstoppable.

earlyagain · April 2019

I don't expect more. I just want to make sure to dodge the bandwagon. I'll stand up for Presidential policy if it seems right. No portrait is getting hung in my parlor though.

Jermanator · April 2019

SCOTUS refused to block the ban. There is talk in this article about the Chevron case. I am going to have to dig into that later to see what it is about. Thomas and Gorsuch are the only two that publicly dissented...

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/bump-stocks-ban-supreme-court-thomas-gorsuch.html

sgtrock21 · April 2019

bisley said:

This is just one more issue that the left is using as a wedge to divide and conquer conservatives and libertarians, among themselves, and against each other. It makes them weak against any opposition force that can hold its 'soldiers' together, by whatever means, until the manufactured crisis is resolved. The players on the left have successfully set themselves up as the arbiters of whether a crisis really exists, and when it has been resolved. Mostly, it works, simply because any free society is made up of individuals who think for themselves and won't give that up to support a 'cause.' With their majority control of television news, social media, and the entertainment industry, they can control minority views, by making them appear to be the majority. They have created coalitions consisting of poorly informed and highly emotional people who will believe their lies and accept the anecdotal evidence that they throw out as actual proof.

The point, here, is that humans tend to make judgements based on their own personal priorities, and the overwhelming majority of gun owners know that bump stocks are irrelevant to the main question of how to prevent sociopaths from acting out their fantasies. In reality, the instruments of destruction that these sociopaths choose make little or no difference, once they have actually made the commitment to kill defenseless human beings. There have always been suicidal persons among us - this recent upturn in mass murders is just the result of some phenomenon that the 'experts' have not figured out, that causes suicidal people to believe that taking others with them will give them some kind of eternal 'nirvana.' Obviously, radical Islam has helped to awaken a belief in this sort of acting out that transcends politics and traditional religion.

The left has no interest in solving the question of how to identify these potential killers, or what to do with them if they are identified, because their only goal is to create chaotic situations that assist them in manipulating people by exploiting their emotions.

All of these 'movements' to apply irrelevant government fixes to bewildering behaviors by a tiny segment of the population are in service to left-wing ideologies that will otherwise be rejected out-of-hand by sensible, but poorly informed citizens. The left has made a science out of manipulating normal people and how to influence them to band together against ideas that would never accept, if they actually understood them. It didn't happen overnight - it just seemed to, because of the rapid proliferation of social media. The world is now filled with people who suddenly believe that the rest of the world gives a damn about them, and they want to make their mark.

Bump stocks, high capacity magazines, and all of the other manufactured controversies that surround 2A issues are simply misdirections that are intended to divert thinking people from asking the right questions to their government representatives, and demanding that they find the correct answers to them. It is a tactic used in every strategy to overcome an 'enemy,' whether it be a military war, a football game, or a game of Monopoly.

Excellent! I agree 100%.

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