Upcoming Re-barrel project - need some input

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Replies

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,050 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Unless those flutes will play music, why bother?
    Jerry

    Honestly, unless fluting the barrel is somehow detrimental, it's just for aesthetics...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,508 Senior Member
    I'm with you. I think flutes can look pretty cool.
    If you like them, there's no reason not too.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,844 Senior Member
    jbohio wrote: »
    If you like them, there's no reason not too.
    There's some debate on that Joe.
    I know Shilen says, "Fluting a barrel can induce unrecoverable stresses that will encourage warping when heated and can also swell the bore dimensions, causing loose spots in the bore."
    http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question8

    I don't know if it can or not, and can't say a rifle having a fluted barrel would be a deal breaker for me. By the same token though, I can't say for sure I'd ever have a barrel fluted either :uhm:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,412 Senior Member
    The opinions I've heard are that if a barrel is fluted, it should be done first, before the blank is drilled, or rifled. Doing so after the internal machining would probably set up stresses that would be pretty unpredictable. I wonder if the risk of creating a possibly unstable barrel is worth the few ounces of weight loss the fluting would give? The increase in surface area to aid in cooling would only be an advantage in the case of a high-volume shooting situation like with a dedicated prarie dog rig, IMHO.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,844 Senior Member
    As a rebuttal to Shilen's stance on it, here's what Lilja says about it, "We've been asked if machining flutes into a rifle barrel causes stress in the steel. The short answer is no, it does not. There are some operations in the manufacture of a rifle barrel that can cause stress to develop in the steel, but fluting is not one of them. To the contrary, fluting can and will relieve stress if it is already present. The same is true of any outside machining work performed on a barrel."

    So Shilen says it will void your warranty and can induce stress in the barrel and Lilja says it relieves stress from the barrel.
    Who's right? Who's wrong? I have no idea :uhm:

    forgot the link: http://www.riflebarrels.com/faq_lilja_rifle_barrels.htm#stress
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,844 Senior Member
    Hey, I haven't said it is or isn't good or bad to flute a barrel. I've just provided opposing viewpoints from two well known barrel makers, so :p

    :jester: :wink:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,851 Senior Member
    I know when I bought the barrel for my .250 Savage when I talked to Shilen about fluting, they told me it would void my warranty on the barrel if I had it fluted for like reasons that have already been given. I ended up getting a Krieger barrel but Shilen scared me away from fluting. Now I find that fluting like Teach says should be done first before the rifling is cut. Also I found out that real cut rifling is not as subject to setting up stresses from fluting as button cut is. Then the should also heat treat the barrel or Kryo it to remove the stress. But there seems to be no issues with the Krieger or Barlein Cut rifling.

    Having said all this BS, I don't want my barrel fluted. I had my last two builds bead blasted as fluting does little if anything to disapate heat. Bead blasting is way more efficient for that. However, I do like the idea of a fluted bolt. A fluted bolt doesnt'get hot like a barrel and fluting cuts down on the drag and weight, making the bolt seem smoother to operate. I think fluted bolts look very nice.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,412 Senior Member
    Gun building procedures seem to fall into two pretty distinct categories, things that improve performance, accuracy, etc., and things that improve the eye appeal of the finished product. Bull barrels, air-gauged rifling, triggers that let go when a shooter just thinks hard about firing, custom scope mounts, high dollar optics, etc. all contribute to shooting tiny groups or doing whatever the hunter/shooter wants the gun to do. I've seen some butt-ugly muzzleloaders that look like a rough-turned barrel blank has been attached to a 4X4 fencepost with baling wire and duct tape, but they shoot tiny groups that win chunk gun matches. Then there's the "London Best Double" shotgun that costs more than I paid for 100 acres of Tennessee farmland. The difference is the artistic talent of the gun builder, and the quality of the wood, the engarving, and the fit and finish that makes it "fine art that shoots".

    Fluting is eye candy, plain and simple. If it cranks your tractor, go for it!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member Posts: 5,508 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Hey, I haven't said it is or isn't good or bad to flute a barrel. I've just provided opposing viewpoints from two well known barrel makers, so :p

    :jester: :wink:

    I remember when we talked about this one other time, the same opposing view points. I guess my decision is to NOT buy a fluted Shilen barrel. Or maybe any Shilen.
    The three rifles I own with fluted barrels shoot well. My 204 is fluted.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,035 Senior Member
    Yes, you are saying they are bad--I think it is a subliminal message you are saying in every post, "Shilen is Bad!" "Shilen is Bad!" "Shilen is Bad!":roll2::rotflmao::wink:
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Let me clarify folks......I'm not saying Shilen barrels are bad.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,035 Senior Member
    I knew I heard the subliminal message wrong. Of course, that is the problem with subliminal messages:roll2:
    "Shilen barrels are Bad!" "Shilen barrels are Bad!" "Shilen barrels are Bad!" Better? :angel2:
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Hey, I like their triggers!!
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • prozium451prozium451 Member Posts: 130 Member
    Time to raise this from the dead.

    Scott, if you gotta tinker with something I know of a certain Savage that still has her virginity. And she's not very far from where you're sitting. Just sayin'
    cpj wrote: »
    Besides when she starts complaining, you just tell her to shut up and bake you a pie! Thats what I do.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,050 Senior Member
    Yep...just not sure what to do with it yet...there are soooo many options...but it DOES like 180 grain NBTs...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • prozium451prozium451 Member Posts: 130 Member
    I've been meaning to stow away some cash for that project but I have certain other obligations to fulfill first.
    cpj wrote: »
    Besides when she starts complaining, you just tell her to shut up and bake you a pie! Thats what I do.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 15,050 Senior Member
    You just keep stowing....the other stuff has priority....let me worry about the rifle...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • tjsvet50tjsvet50 Member Posts: 147 Member
    Hey Scott, good decision on the 260 and the 24" bbl. The flues are a good idea. With flues, it provides more surface to the barrel, helping cool a bit faster, and lightening it a bit.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,038 Senior Member
    Funny. I got bored with cartridges that weren't boring. To each his own.

    To me, the whole attraction to the .264 bullet diameter is high BC and high SD. A .260 that's optimized for a 130 grain pill that won't stabilize the 162 Oswald Express is supremely uninteresting.

    I'd go 1-8", 26", and see how it does with the slow burners.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
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