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good vid on solar and wind

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  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    As far as hybrids go, when "they" stop fooling around with thousands of dollars worth of technology to bring a gas engine up to the approximate efficiency of a diesel - and apply it to a diesel instead, they'll have my attention. THAT technology has been around for 75 years or more because its cheap and it works. Best of all, no batteries!

    Instead we're stuck with the VHS of hybrid technology...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    There are 3 kinds of lies...

    Besides, modern diesels don't emit that stuff anymore - just don't follow too close to mine!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #34
    I don't think diesel emissions are half as "bad" as "they" say they are. I'm not trying to say they're not bad, just that they're not nearly as bad as we're lead to believe. Gas engines emit crap too, but most of the diesel stuff is heavy enough that it hits the ground fairly quickly.

    Its starting to sound a lot like the world wide anti-Pb hysteria - and it *is* hysteria. But anything worth doing is worth over doing to a green or a liberal.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,670 Senior Member
    I don't have any personal animosity towards diesel powered vehicles, BUT I hate getting behind one in traffic. They stink like Sh**, and I hate the smell of them.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    And thus I don't have problems with tailgaters!

    Even worse is being behind an old, clapped out gas car with leaky valve guides and blow-by!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member Posts: 5,797 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    There are 3 kinds of lies...

    Besides, modern diesels don't emit that stuff anymore - just don't follow too close to mine!

    This will be one of the few times that I agree with Alph. Commercial vehicles fall under a different set of emission standards than cars and trucks and there are a heck of a lot more big commercial diesel vehicles out there than cars and pickups. And since diesels last for quite a while, there's lots of not so modern stuff out there. When do you get your modern clean burning Mercedes?
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #38
    When they dump the "technology" and give me an engine, (manual) transmission and 4 wheels. In other words, it ain't happening. I still don't think diesel emissions are nearly as bad as "they" would have one believe - they've been seen as the "cleaner" alternative everywhere in the world except here for decades.

    But again, a Diesel electric hybrid would have my attention, especially if it minimized the "technology" and batteries! And hopefully looked like an automobile instead of the fugly crap we're stuck with these days...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    And again, 99% of that heavy soot hits the ground in pretty short order.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    It depends on the emissions.  From a CO2 perspective, yes generally they are cleaner. From a PM2.5 perspective (soot) they're much worse. Basically think of diesel vehicles as smokers forcing everyone to inhale their second hand smoke. It is literally almost exactly that. It's less a long term environmental impact and more of a direct human health impact. 
    I could tell ya how to get rid of the 'soot' from diesel engines, and it's dirt cheap to implement. I've seen it done, and it's been around for at least 40 years when I first took note of what I was seeing. Even helped build a few for sawmills using OLD diesel engines from OLD farm tractors.
    Same LOW TECH technology would also work on coal, gas, and oil fired electric generating stations. And I'll even give you a hint as to the LOW TECH chemical compound used; it's the most common and abundant chemical compound found on this dirtball planet. Something to figure out if you're of a mind to do so.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • kansashunterkansashunter Senior Member Posts: 1,812 Senior Member
    Alpha, are these tier 1 2 3 or tier four engines you are testing?
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    They're all new or relatively new light duty passenger vehicles. They will likely also test some of our older, heavier work trucks. The impetus behind the effort was the WV cheating scandal. 
    That was foreseeable in that The U.S. Government in the form of the EPA and DOT have made the 'royal proclamation' that vehicles must provide more MPG than an engine can provide with all the government mandated safety systems, creature comforts, extra weight added from such, and the finite and irrefutable Btu count available in a gallon of gas or diesel fuel. The old saying, "You can't squeeze blood from a turnip", comes to mind. The .Peter Principle' is alive and well in most all government agencies, and this is an example of such.
    The Peter Principle explained for those not  familiar with the term:

      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,221 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #43
    Solar is not going to go away. Improvements are made all the time and it will stay that way. Germany makes nearly 7% of their power from solar. Not exactly a sunny country. 

    In California if you build a new house, it HAS to have solar installed. My new company built the much of the solar array in McMurdo Antarctica. There are places where solar makes sense. Hawaii is another example. Oil and coal have to be imported. 


    I also agree with the diesel-electric. There should be one. Drove my father in law's 2016 Jetta TDi from Cottonwood Az, to Boise on 1 tank of fuel. That's 916 miles on 14.5 gallons and doing the speed limit which is nearly 80mph more than half of that time. That's averaging 63 mpg. No hypermilling. Just normal driving with two people and junk in there as well. 

    Lot's of pressure when I refilled it in Boise, but it got me there. No gas engine comes close.
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    edited July 2019 #44
    Tugar said:
    In California if you build a new house, it HAS to have solar installed...
    I'd heard something about this - although I'm all for solar where/when it makes sense, Commiefornia's shoving it down everybody's throats is reason 4 billion plus I'm glad I'm out of that horrid place. Let's just add $20K to the price of housing in the most expensive state in the union. But I'm sure this only applies to American Citizens, so that's ok.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • kansashunterkansashunter Senior Member Posts: 1,812 Senior Member
    I thought the reason for having to use def was to clean up the exhaust or is just a way to waste money.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    Nothing's ever good enough for a Liberal - or a Green.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    I thought the reason for having to use def was to clean up the exhaust or is just a way to waste money.
    Def cleans up NOx. NOx basically turns into nitric acid in your lungs and also reacts with light to form ground level ozone which is also generally bad in addition to causing smog.

    Def does nothing to reduce particulate matter which is basically like second hand smoke. Mostly just causes asthma, lung cancer etc. There are controls for PM, but it's not clear they're much use overall other than to help pass the EPA tests. 
    Like I said, particulates are easily controlled by low tech means, but the technoterror idiots go high tech and miss the point, and the target. Not my circus and not my monkeys, anyway.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • NomadacNomadac Senior Member Posts: 902 Senior Member

    Cuomo’s Power Outage Portent WSJ

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/cuomos-power-outage-portent-11563838386

    I hope this will open, great article.







  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    Natural gas is supposed to be soooooooooo much cleaner burning than coal. Having been in the 'bag houses' of both coal and NG generating plants, it's more a level of degree between the two, with much of it being akin to attempting to pick up a turd by the clean end.
    And this is THE LAST DAMNED TIME I will attempt to explain bag houses and electrostatic precipitators and how they work and what they let through. Bag houses are nothing but synthetic fabric filters that catch the particulates before they leave the exhaust stacks of coal and NG plants. They filter out the big particulates and a lot of the small particulates, but both let the 'fines' escape. And for what it's worth, the fines are much more unhealthy than the bigger particulates as they embed in the lungs much more readily and cause much worse problems to health, and especially to folk with asthma and other respiratory ailments. The record on this is long standing and has been known for decades.
    Electrostatic precipitators remove particulates by using electrical charges on screens to attract and remove particulates that have or can be attracted to the opposite charged screens. Ain't electricity grand? :p  The problem lies in that some particulates, fines, and gases, do not  and will not accept a static charge, nor are they attracted to the screens in any significant way because of this. They just pass through them like a fart through your underwear. That's where my low tech system would come in, but it works so can't be used as then the EPA, politicians, and 'greenie weenies' would no longer have a whipping boy to exploit.
    Going inside a bag house in a coal fired plant or a NG plant is 'interesting' in that if you didn't know beforehand which one you were in, you'd have no way to tell which was which, unless you had worked in both changing out the bags. They are both dirty, nasty, filthy, hot places and you learn to appreciate Tyvek coveralls and dual filter particulate respirators (gas masks). Carbon is carbon, and NG is a witche's brew of different flammable gases. And all types of coal ARE NOT equal as to burning, Btu output, and nasty particulates.
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,670 Senior Member
    I thought the reason for having to use def was to clean up the exhaust or is just a way to waste money.
    Def cleans up NOx. NOx basically turns into nitric acid in your lungs and also reacts with light to form ground level ozone which is also generally bad in addition to causing smog.

    Def does nothing to reduce particulate matter which is basically like second hand smoke. Mostly just causes asthma, lung cancer etc. There are controls for PM, but it's not clear they're much use overall other than to help pass the EPA tests. 
    Probably one of the few things I can agree with you about. To me, smelling diesel smoke is about as bad as sitting downwind of a tobacco smoker......It's nauseating.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    I love the smell of Diesel in the morning! :D
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,128 Senior Member
    My dad was a diesel tech so the smell of diesel brings back fond memories of my father. Sitting behind a Harley with loud pipes? Not so enjoyable.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,828 Senior Member
    I thought the reason for having to use def was to clean up the exhaust or is just a way to waste money.
    Def cleans up NOx. NOx basically turns into nitric acid in your lungs and also reacts with light to form ground level ozone which is also generally bad in addition to causing smog.

    Def does nothing to reduce particulate matter which is basically like second hand smoke. Mostly just causes asthma, lung cancer etc. There are controls for PM, but it's not clear they're much use overall other than to help pass the EPA tests. 
    Probably one of the few things I can agree with you about. To me, smelling diesel smoke is about as bad as sitting downwind of a tobacco smoker......It's nauseating.
    Pipe tobacco smells really good!
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,654 Senior Member
    My dad was a diesel tech so the smell of diesel brings back fond memories of my father. Sitting behind a Harley with loud pipes? Not so enjoyable.
    Did you know...

    Ford/IHC diesels smell different than just about every body else's. Impossible to describe, but there's a different "cachet" to a Ford/IHC exhaust!

    On the other hand, going out on deck onboard a ship and catching a whiff of agitated diesel fuel wafting out of the vent pipes will put you on the rail instantly!

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,395 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    My dad was a diesel tech so the smell of diesel brings back fond memories of my father. Sitting behind a Harley with loud pipes? Not so enjoyable.
    Did you know...

    Ford/IHC diesels smell different than just about every body else's. Impossible to describe, but there's a different "cachet" to a Ford/IHC exhaust!

    On the other hand, going out on deck onboard a ship and catching a whiff of agitated diesel fuel wafting out of the vent pipes will put you on the rail instantly!

    Pffftttt! Want to smell something that will take your breath away, then get a snotlocker full of the smell of the 'black oil' that Navy ships ran on back when I was a sailor! You got to smell the dead dinosaurs that had been fermenting for millions of years! :#
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,828 Senior Member
    tennmike said:
    zorba said:
    My dad was a diesel tech so the smell of diesel brings back fond memories of my father. Sitting behind a Harley with loud pipes? Not so enjoyable.
    Did you know...

    Ford/IHC diesels smell different than just about every body else's. Impossible to describe, but there's a different "cachet" to a Ford/IHC exhaust!

    On the other hand, going out on deck onboard a ship and catching a whiff of agitated diesel fuel wafting out of the vent pipes will put you on the rail instantly!

    Pffftttt! Want to smell something that will take your breath away, then get a snotlocker full of the smell of the 'black oil' that Navy ships ran on back when I was a sailor! You got to smell the dead dinosaurs that had been fermenting for millions of years! :#

    Would that be the good old NSFO?  It wasn't too bad during flight ops when the carrier was headed into the wind, but then it got replaced with the wonderful aroma of JP5 being lit off.
    No good deed goes unpunished...
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