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Ballistics Gelatin Tests! (I bought some jello!)

bullsi1911bullsi1911 ModeratorPosts: 12,134 Senior Member
edited November 2019 in Personal Defense #1
I bought myself a 6”x6”x16” block of Clear Ballistics 10% FBI Gel the other day.   On Saturday between the morning and evening hunts, we fired a couple of different rounds into it just to see what they would do.  What we had available was:
-My surplus S&W Model 10 with the Matt’s Bullets HBWC loaded upside down over 4 grains of Trailboss.
-My CZ P10C loaded with 9mm Federal “Train and Protect” 115 Gr JHP
-My buddies Walther PPQ loaded with Remington “Green and White Box” bulk pack 9mm115Gr JHP.
-My EAA Witness Full-size 10mm loaded with Doubletap 180Gr “Controlled Expansion JHP”
-Oh, and the Ruger Redhawk 4” loaded with the last box of Winchester soft point 44Mag 240 Grainers

Here are the results!



Details:

Matt’s .38 HBWC- 7ish inches of Penetration 

.662” Expansion.  Still thinking this will be a handy as hell load to have around.  Probably will knock the heck out of small game.  I will continue to play with it.


Rem. 115Gr JHP.  14” Penetration, .65” Expansion.  Pretty damn impressive performance for “bulk pack” ammo.  I need to remelt this block and test with clothing.  Because it sure would be nice to train with and carry the same ammo.


Federal Train and Protect 115Gr JHP.  Another impressive performance from a value price.  13.25” Penetration, .566” Expansion.  Another one that will be tested with clothing on the block.


Doubletap 180Gr “Controlled Expansion” JHP.  This one went 14.5” Penetration, Max diameter .792 Inches, then reached back through time and caused the extinction of the dinosaurs.  

The .44Mag punched clean through, leaving a few fragments, and rumor has it it is still running till this day.

This is super fun.  We filmed some of it, but the videos did not turn out good because of lighting.  We will do more experimentation and figure out how to do cool stuff with this.

Up next will be the S&B 7.62x25 JHP.  I REALLY want that to perform.  

Also some old school Silvertip in 9 and 40.... and a couple 45 HPs.  
To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov

Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,685 Senior Member
    I am busy right now. But, excited about this. Will study more thorough later. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    I can't help but look at the entirety fo those results and be impressed with the two 115gr 9mm loads. You didn't include retained weight or comprehensive measurement of the kinetic channel. However the photos reveal intact bullets for those light 9mm bullets. While the bigger 10mm showed increased performance, its marginal improvement over the 9mm is serious food for thought.

    Those Matt wad cutters continue to win the mushroom awards.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,134 Senior Member
    Good point on the weight stuff.  I'll bust out the scale later and post results.  
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,772 Senior Member
    edited November 2019 #5
    I think the benefit of the 10 over the 9 is the energy it dumps in the process.  It may not have penetrated much more, but I assume its going close to the same velocity of the 9mm just with an extra 65gr of lead and copper.  It also opened to a larger overall diameter which should produce a larger wound channel.  Of course this is gel and not actual flesh, so real world performance will probably be different.

    Side note, how do you like the EAA 10mm?  I have heard good and bad about them.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    There's no doubt that the increased performance of the 10mm is desirable for certain circumstances. But it comes at a cost. A cost that might be weighed against the measured increase versus the intended use, with the availability of additional information.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,746 Senior Member
    edited November 2019 #7
    Just a thought... It would be nice to have a few chronograph readings to know at what speed those rounds are traveling at. Everyone on this forum knows that not all 9's, 10"s or 11.43's are manufactured to the same specs.
    Also, expansion is relative. Relative to the initial bullet diameter. My guess is the Remington's are running hotter than the T&P (better penetration and expansion). The T&P are probably easier to shoot -- recoil wise. Just guessing.
    Since the Matt's bullet load were intended for indoor contact distances with less chance of pass-through, I think they performed as expected.
    2:1 That's very roughly the difference between water jug penetration to ballistic gel. Quick, someone please measure a milk jug. (7" penetration will do a number at close range)
    If you follow the bullet tracks of each round, it seems the 10 mm wins the Christmas ham. It shows the largest and earliest temporary cavity as well as the most penetration aside from the 44 mag load. Of course, that penetration and expansion comes at a cost. How much recoil is the shooter comfortable with.
    I like hard hitting loads. I like good bone breakers. But that's just me.
    I really appreciate you taking the time to post these results. A lot can be learned from this kind of testing.
    Now I get greedy 😂 more tests please. More info, more info, more info...
    😜
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,685 Senior Member
    edited November 2019 #8
    Suuuuurrreeeee would be nice to have velocities. 

    Yep. 

    Sure would. 

    😒
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,685 Senior Member
    Still really like that Matt’s Bullet. May not be a stem to stern round. But, that’s the point. No?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,685 Senior Member
    Throw some clothing over the front of the gel next time. 

    Science!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,134 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Throw some clothing over the front of the gel next time. 

    Science!!
    That’s already in the plans
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,134 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Suuuuurrreeeee would be nice to have velocities. 

    Yep. 

    Sure would. 

    😒
    You gonna come help me load the truck next time?  Jeez.  Just can’t please som people.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,134 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    Just a thought... It would be nice to have a few chronograph readings to know at what speed those rounds are traveling at. Everyone on this forum knows that not all 9's, 10"s or 11.43's are manufactured to the same specs.
    Also, expansion is relative. Relative to the initial bullet diameter. My guess is the Remington's are running hotter than the T&P (better penetration and expansion). The T&P are probably easier to shoot -- recoil wise. Just guessing.
    Since the Matt's bullet load were intended for indoor contact distances with less chance of pass-through, I think they performed as expected.
    2:1 That's very roughly the difference between water jug penetration to ballistic gel. Quick, someone please measure a milk jug. (7" penetration will do a number at close range)
    If you follow the bullet tracks of each round, it seems the 10 mm wins the Christmas ham. It shows the largest and earliest temporary cavity as well as the most penetration aside from the 44 mag load. Of course, that penetration and expansion comes at a cost. How much recoil is the shooter comfortable with.
    I like hard hitting loads. I like good bone breakers. But that's just me.
    I really appreciate you taking the time to post these results. A lot can be learned from this kind of testing.
    Now I get greedy 😂 more tests please. More info, more info, more info...
    😜
    Just need time.  Anyone have some of that they can send me?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,685 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    Just a thought... It would be nice to have a few chronograph readings to know at what speed those rounds are traveling at. Everyone on this forum knows that not all 9's, 10"s or 11.43's are manufactured to the same specs.
    Also, expansion is relative. Relative to the initial bullet diameter. My guess is the Remington's are running hotter than the T&P (better penetration and expansion). The T&P are probably easier to shoot -- recoil wise. Just guessing.
    Since the Matt's bullet load were intended for indoor contact distances with less chance of pass-through, I think they performed as expected.
    2:1 That's very roughly the difference between water jug penetration to ballistic gel. Quick, someone please measure a milk jug. (7" penetration will do a number at close range)
    If you follow the bullet tracks of each round, it seems the 10 mm wins the Christmas ham. It shows the largest and earliest temporary cavity as well as the most penetration aside from the 44 mag load. Of course, that penetration and expansion comes at a cost. How much recoil is the shooter comfortable with.
    I like hard hitting loads. I like good bone breakers. But that's just me.
    I really appreciate you taking the time to post these results. A lot can be learned from this kind of testing.
    Now I get greedy 😂 more tests please. More info, more info, more info...
    😜
    Just need time.  Anyone have some of that they can send me?
    In the mail. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,685 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Suuuuurrreeeee would be nice to have velocities. 

    Yep. 

    Sure would. 

    😒
    You gonna come help me load the truck next time?  Jeez.  Just can’t please som people.
    If need be. I’ll hold your hand, even. 😁
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,746 Senior Member
    Sending positive thoughts your way right now. Hopefully, some time will open up and you'll be able to get some more cool stuff done.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

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