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Arisaka question

sakodudesakodude Senior MemberPosts: 3,890 Senior Member
Anyone know the significance of the stamped characters in the chrysanthemum on this rifle?

Replies

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    I don't recollect ever seeing that before - but I've only seen 2 or 3 of these.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    If you go to gunboards.com and scroll down to the Japanese weapons and post your picture, I'm pretty sure some of the experts there will know.  I think it might be an effort to deface the mum, but I don't know.  They will.

    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    edited February 21 #4
    I think they're supposed to be like that but I cant remember why.

    Here ya go.
    https://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    edited February 21 #5
    I was just reading that same thing. Though I don’t see those specific symbols, I think it was pulled from military service to be a training rifle. That article indicates the mum’s were over stamped in those instances.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    Ya need one with an aircraft sight  :)
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    It does have the volley/battle sight but not the aircraft
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 566 Senior Member
    Tom that one yours ?
    6.5 or 7.7 ?
    My nephew has a 6.5 and a lot of ammo.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    Actually it’s something that my brother was offered and were trying to figure out just what it is?
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    He was supposed to try and mic the bore to determine 6.5 or 7.7 but he never got back to me on that.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,769 Senior Member
    Very interesting rifle!  I wish guns like that could talk...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 566 Senior Member
    edited February 21 #12
    Well it doesn't look like a last ditch one IMHO
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    Since the mum was the mark of ownership of the Emperor and thus held kinda sacred, I can't see any Japanese defacing it by overstamping it.  Removing it, yes, as they did with the rifles surrendered at the end of the war to remove the mum and therefore the ties to the Emperor.  It could have  been captured and defaced by an enemy, like the Chinese or Koreans, and the characters may not be Japanese.  But I'm sure the guys on gunboards.com will identify it.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    Could make it a special rifle. Be worth trying to get the exact information.
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 7,823 Senior Member
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    Posted the photo on the Rising Sun forums.  They should know.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,769 Senior Member
    edited February 21 #17
    Just a thought but do you know where the rifle came from?  Arisaka rifles were captured (not just guns but even factories) and used extensively by the Korean and the Chinese.  Most of these guns bear all sorts of interesting marks on them and I think those characters might be Korean.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    From the Japanese weapons forum. school mark:


    "Very interesting. The mum seems to be cancelled with a 井 - SEI stamp, probably indicating Seinen, or Youth. The next character down is 文 - translated to MON, a common indicator in Japan of a school. In its application on Japanese rifles and carbines it is believed to be the first character in 文部省, which translates to MON-BU-SHO, the “Ministry of Education”. (Translation note: if the character 文 is separated from this string of Japanese characters, it is usually translated as BUN.) Use of this character indicates that the weapon was transferred to an education agency by the IJA, having been released from the IJA weapons inventory. The symbol is nearly always encountered together with a cancelled mum or a concentric circle in place of the mum.

    These characters were applied with some unusual tool, giving them an unfamiliar appearance. I have not encountered this exact application previously. Thanks for posing the photo."
    "
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,769 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    From the Japanese weapons forum. school mark:


    "Very interesting. The mum seems to be cancelled with a 井 - SEI stamp, probably indicating Seinen, or Youth. The next character down is 文 - translated to MON, a common indicator in Japan of a school. In its application on Japanese rifles and carbines it is believed to be the first character in 文部省, which translates to MON-BU-SHO, the “Ministry of Education”. (Translation note: if the character 文 is separated from this string of Japanese characters, it is usually translated as BUN.) Use of this character indicates that the weapon was transferred to an education agency by the IJA, having been released from the IJA weapons inventory. The symbol is nearly always encountered together with a cancelled mum or a concentric circle in place of the mum.

    These characters were applied with some unusual tool, giving them an unfamiliar appearance. I have not encountered this exact application previously. Thanks for posing the photo."
    "
    Very cool info!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    Whoa!
    Maybe better hang on to that one. If not for monetary value, for historical oddity.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,756 Senior Member
    Get that one!
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    From the Japanese weapons forum. school mark:


    "Very interesting. The mum seems to be cancelled with a 井 - SEI stamp, probably indicating Seinen, or Youth. The next character down is 文 - translated to MON, a common indicator in Japan of a school. In its application on Japanese rifles and carbines it is believed to be the first character in 文部省, which translates to MON-BU-SHO, the “Ministry of Education”. (Translation note: if the character 文 is separated from this string of Japanese characters, it is usually translated as BUN.) Use of this character indicates that the weapon was transferred to an education agency by the IJA, having been released from the IJA weapons inventory. The symbol is nearly always encountered together with a cancelled mum or a concentric circle in place of the mum.

    These characters were applied with some unusual tool, giving them an unfamiliar appearance. I have not encountered this exact application previously. Thanks for posing the photo."
    "
    Thanks Gene, great info.
  • JunkCollectorJunkCollector Posts: 566 Senior Member
    If your brother gets any deeper into it this may help.

    http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    sakodude said:
    He was supposed to try and mic the bore to determine 6.5 or 7.7 but he never got back to me on that.
    Quite a difference between 6.5 and 7.7.  Probably don't need a mic to determine that.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    sakodude said:
    He was supposed to try and mic the bore to determine 6.5 or 7.7 but he never got back to me on that.
    Quite a difference between 6.5 and 7.7.  Probably don't need a mic to determine that.
    You wouldn’t, I wouldn’t but my brother :#
    anyone hazard a guess on value here?
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    To add to the package
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