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Not something you see every day!

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  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Posts: 8,148 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Jayhawker said:
    IIRC They made a million of them...and one got used as intended....
    The French have standards about what they will use in combat, who knew?
    Of course!  Let me introduce you to the official combat boot of the WWII French Army...
    Sandlot Center Hi in MC2001SD - refresh_default_gallery view Sandlot
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,756 Senior Member
    Now there are two words that just don't fit together, French and combat
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Jayhawker said:
    IIRC They made a million of them...and one got used as intended....
    The French have standards about what they will use in combat, who knew?
    They have standards?
    :D
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member

     :D 
    Yep. Ned can shoot it with full house loads.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,622 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Jayhawker said:
    IIRC They made a million of them...and one got used as intended....
    The French have standards about what they will use in combat, who knew?
    They have standards?
    :D
    Well, it looks scary.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Spk said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Jayhawker said:
    IIRC They made a million of them...and one got used as intended....
    The French have standards about what they will use in combat, who knew?
    They have standards?
    :D
    Well, it looks scary.
    It wasn't...even when it worked...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,086 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #39
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Spk said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Jayhawker said:
    IIRC They made a million of them...and one got used as intended....
    The French have standards about what they will use in combat, who knew?
    They have standards?
    :D
    Well, it looks scary.
    It's called a Chauchat and is tops, or nearly tops, every "Worst Machine Gun" list I've seen
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,250 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Its only been recently that exactly one instance of it being deployed as intended has come to light. Somebody popped off a Nazi officer in France with one.

    We have documentation of that anywhere?  Sees like the sort of action that would get the perpetrator, his friends, their families, their dogs, and their dog's fleas all laboriously tortured and all record of their previous existence erased. . .

    But you do have to love the intrigue of the OSS process. . .

    ;) 
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    Yea, I read it "somewhere" - I *REALLY* wish I'd bookmarked it. Its a fairly recent find.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #42
    There's at least one confirmed death due to a Liberator.
    A foreman was killed when he accidently shot himself in the abdomen with a FP-45 although the “official” story was that he was injured due to a malfunctioning piece of equipment.

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/7/24/the-liberator-pistol/

    Well, at least we know they worked.

    Whoever said Ball ammo is ineffective. 😉



    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    Forgot about that one! Oops...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,622 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Spk said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Jayhawker said:
    IIRC They made a million of them...and one got used as intended....
    The French have standards about what they will use in combat, who knew?
    They have standards?
    :D
    Well, it looks scary.
    It wasn't...even when it worked...
    knitepoet said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Spk said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    Jayhawker said:
    IIRC They made a million of them...and one got used as intended....
    The French have standards about what they will use in combat, who knew?
    They have standards?
    :D
    Well, it looks scary.
    It's called a Chauchat and is tops, or nearly tops, every "Worst Machine Gun" list I've seen
    Yeah, I am familiar with it, "it looks scary" is about the only good thing I could think of to say about it.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    edited March 2 #45
    CPJ forwarded this to me:
    I had seen, but already forgotten about this. Kind of a modern day successor to the Liberator and kind of looks like the CIA "Deer gun". Better made, and more accurate than the Liberator, available in 9mm Parabellum and 9mm Kurz. Cheap and oddball enough - maybe I should get one?

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,730 Senior Member
    Oh, I don't know.  Been watching Tank Museum on Facebook lately and found out how woefully equipped both the French and British were then, tank-wise, and how poorly led the French were.  They depended on the Maginot Line for defense, a hangover from fighting a defensive war.  The ML ended at the Belgium border, where is where the Germans invaded.  The ML was never used by the French. 

    The French fought well in WW1 and lost an incredible number of troops.  Essentially financially broke in the interwar years, there was little money for military spending.  And what they had, the they were still fighting the first war at the beginning of WW2, as were the British.  Both armies were under-equipped because they'd spent a lot of money on Maginot Line and the theory of defense, unlike the Germans who spent a helluva lot of their budget for rearming and the theory of attack. Germany was NOT fighting WW1.  France had very good tanks at the beginning of the war but they were slow and poorly led, going back to using the tank only as an infantry supporting role; the Germans used tanks in a breakthrough role.  The Germans defeated the French, but also defeated the British in those early days, forcing them to retreat to Dunkirk.


    At the battle of Dien Bin Phu, in the final days when defeat was obvious, all remaining French troops parachuted in, cooks, bakers, whatever, some of whom had no parachute training.  So not all of them were surrender monkeys.



    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    CPJ forwarded this to me:
    I had seen, but already forgotten about this. Kind of a modern day successor to the Liberator and kind of looks like the CIA "Deer gun". Better made, and more accurate than the Liberator, available in 9mm Parabellum and 9mm Kurz. Cheap and oddball enough - maybe I should get one?

    You'll put your eye out...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 3,962 Senior Member
    That looks like the "Noisy Cricket" from Men In Black."
    :D
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    Aw, what the hey. Ordered one in .380. Yea, I'll bring it to the shoot, should be good for comic relief if nothing else, although I'm hearing that they're pretty accurate at bad breathe distances. They better be, because they're being touted as a "self defense gun", although I can't see it other than a curiosity 10 years from now when nobody's ever heard of the gun or the company that made it. A future gun for Ian "Gun Jesus" on "Forgotten Weapons" to pontificate about!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    edited March 7 #50
    Well, we've all heard of the M3 Grease Gun, this one we can call the M3 Glue Gun:
    Initial impressions: Well made as noted elsewhere on the Internet, BUT, from my perspective, an accident waiting to happen. Like anything else, if you pay attention to procedure, it'll be fine, but there are enough holes in the manual of arms for this thing to sail the Titanic and the Queen Mary through beam-to-beam. Loading (and unloading an unfired cartridge) requires extra attention to correct procedure, and the protruding firing pin keeps things interesting. Its REAL easy to replace the barrel with parts of your hand in front of the muzzle - ask me how I know this...
    The crossbolt safety has been proven effective, albeit slightly scary, by a youtuber, but the jury's still out in my mind as to the effectiveness of the rotary barrel safety. If the barrel is set on safe, and the trigger is operated, the barrel rotates to "fire" as a result! Whether or not it sets off a loaded round in this case is yet to be determined. Either way, I'm gonna contact Altor to see if this is normal behavior - the rotary barrel safety is supposed to act as a firing pin block. I think finger/trigger and muzzle discipline plus the cross bolt safety are mo' bettah.
    The rifling is interesting, unlike anything I personally have seen before - very wide lands, very narrow grooves.
    I'm thinking at the moment that the old Liberator, as dangerous as that gun could be, is intrinsically far safer. Range trip for both next week!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Uncle FesterUncle Fester Senior Member Posts: 1,370 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Well, we've all heard of the M3 Grease Gun, this one we can call the M3 Glue Gun:
    Initial impressions: Well made as noted elsewhere on the Internet, BUT, from my perspective, an accident waiting to happen. Like anything else, if you pay attention to procedure, it'll be fine, but there are enough holes in the manual of arms for this thing to sail the Titanic and the Queen Mary through beam-to-beam. Loading (and unloading an unfired cartridge) requires extra attention to correct procedure, and the protruding firing pin keeps things interesting. Its REAL easy to replace the barrel with parts of your hand in front of the muzzle - ask me how I know this...
    The crossbolt safety has been proven effective, albeit slightly scary, by a youtuber, but the jury's still out in my mind as to the effectiveness of the rotary barrel safety. If the barrel is set on safe, and the trigger is operated, the barrel rotates to "fire" as a result! Whether or not it sets off a loaded round in this case is yet to be determined. Either way, I'm gonna contact Altor to see if this is normal behavior - the rotary barrel safety is supposed to act as a firing pin block. I think finger/trigger and muzzle discipline plus the cross bolt safety are mo' bettah.
    The rifling is interesting, unlike anything I personally have seen before - very wide lands, very narrow grooves.
    I'm thinking at the moment that the old Liberator, as dangerous as that gun could be, is intrinsically far safer. Range trip for both next week!

    If you get caught carrying it, there is a <50% the cops don’t recognize it as a firearm vs glue gun.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    No kidding, huh? Looks almost identical to my hot melt glue gun - just no cord!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    No kidding, huh? Looks almost identical to my hot melt glue gun - just no cord!
    Battery powered...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    zorba said:
    No kidding, huh? Looks almost identical to my hot melt glue gun - just no cord!
    Battery powered...
    I figured somebody would say that! ;)
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    edited March 10 #55
    Simple, short video on the Liberator:

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    edited March 10 #56
    Just got back from the range. Just to make Ned happy, I shot quantity five (5) "full house" rounds in the Liberator. Do-able, but not pleasant. Kind of like shooting .357 though my wife's Charter Arms.
    It shot WAY high at 5 yards, I had to aim about 12 inches low to hit center. Windage was fine. Bullets keyholed which surprises exactly nobody. Better than the original, no doubt.
    In other news, I also shot the "Glue Gun" - ONCE. Based on that one round, it seems to be pretty accurate, but I "think" I have a box of dud ammo. Tried several other rounds, and despite what appears to be good primer strikes, none went off. The one that did fire did so on a restrike. As I don't have any other .380 ammo nor another .380 gun to A/B things with, I'm gonna blame the ammo until proven otherwise.
    Lastly, the Korean 50 round Glock 9mm magazine is going to be sold down the river. Worked fine once I took the brake off of my gun, BUT, at least half of my ammo is now behind the follower instead of in front of it. Unless I see something dumb and obvious when I take it apart, its going on GB.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,650 Senior Member
    edited March 12 #57
    This'll probably be the last post on this thread (much to everyone's relief, no doubt!), I made a video on the "Glue Gun", that is already more popular than the one I did for the Liberator:
    In other news, there were no less than 20 rounds of ammo behind the follower on that KCI 50 round drum magazine for Glock. After having it apart, I'm really thinking the passageways are too large for 9mm ammo - but I'm no expert so I sent it off to a guy who is! I told him that unless the thing can be made to run reliably, that he could keep it with my blessing for the educational value as he works on mags of all sorts, particularly rare ones and Luger "snail" drum mags, etc so he knows this stuff.

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
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