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Coronavirus Political Thread

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  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,837 Senior Member
    Yea, I'm "coming around" to a certain extent - based on primary sources and primary sources ONLY. If the media tells me the sky is blue, I'm going to go outside and check.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,876 Senior Member
    My former community in lower MI just developed a website to help people with the "struggles" of staying home...
    Could someone help me understand what struggles one experiences while staying home?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 889 Senior Member
    Making a living and paying bills.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,619 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Alph, you're still conducting hand wringing exercises. Yea, its gonna go up - maybe/probably just like you say. It STILL ISN'T GOING TO KILL EVERYBODY like the spin mongers would have you believe. Not even close.
    Not even the fear mongers say it's going to kill everybody. I don't know where that's coming from.
    ... it looks like about 80 percent of people who get coronavirus have mild symptoms. 20 percent may go on to require hospitalization, they have more severe illness, but they're also people who may not have any symptoms at all but will be carrying the virus and can transmit it to others.-- CNN  March 2, 2020
    And CNN probably hypes it the most. Anyway, a lot of folks will probably die no matter what actions we take but even moreso if we do nothing and ignore it.
    As for the spin machine. A) fact of life -- hype sells. B) People are hardened/jaded to hype so greater hype seems to be necessary to "scare" a helpful message into people just to get them to change habits. (Like an addict with a built-up tolerance)
    It's the paradox that Alph mentioned earlier. Scare people into compliance and the number of cases go down --> Public perception will be that the Covid-19 scare was overblown. That's actually good news for us and makes the media look stupid. If they don't hype it enough and this pandemic gets a good footing, the death rate among older people could really climb and both the government and media take a big hit for not sounding the alarm loud enough. (Damned if you do, Damned if you don't)
    If I worked in the media I would be hyping it also. If I could help keep just some of these folks safe, it'd be worth the browbeating I'll endure later.
    Folks in the media and in government are gonna take a hit on this one no matter what direction it goes.
    When lives are at stake, may as well yell 🔥 even if all you see is smoke.
    None of us will know how bad it really is for a year or more down the road. Right now the experts are making a best guess estimation and hedging their bets towards a worst case scenario, in case this virus goes Hollywood on us (better to be over-prepared...).



    Now how all of this affects the economy, that's a whole 'nother matter! 😬

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 889 Senior Member
     Honestly scared to read the bill that was just passed and signed.  I think this is legit, but what the politicians deem necessary scares the hell out of me.  Cali ain’t wrong about power grabs, and civil liberty losses.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,064 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    I think this notion that government suddenly is supposed to have their poop in a group and operate effectively and efficiently is particularly laughable when we have over 200 years showing us the contrary.
    Maybe, but I would expect them to at least outperform some 3rd World craphole.
    Why?  In many 3rd World crapholes, the government is often efficient because the obstructing opposition party is lying in a shallow grave.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,837 Senior Member
    edited March 2020 #128
    If I worked in the media I would be hyping it also. If I could help keep just some of these folks safe, it'd be worth the browbeating I'll endure later.


    The more something is hyped, the more I discount it as the shullbit it is. Doesn't work with me, it actually has the OPPOSITE effect. If you don't want me to see a movie, hype the Hell out of it, any interest I may have had is immediately killed.
    Hyping just blows your credibility, and I'll NEVER trust (the hypothetical) you or anything you say again. Hence, our media.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    The news said that Wall Street fell.

    From where I sit. Its hard to tell.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,963 Senior Member
    California Governor prepared to enact Martial Law

    The idea that it is even being thought about, especially in California is crazy.
    And the Democrats have been saying Trump will do it since day one.  Go figure

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-california-martial-law-shelter-in-place-lockdown-army-a9410256.html
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,837 Senior Member
    Its California. What else would you expect?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
    )O(
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,216 Senior Member
    edited March 2020 #132
    Also, why are folks getting their panties in a bunch over this being called the china virus or Chinese virus.  It originated in China!!!!  Of all the things to be worried about, this one is way down my list.
    Because Trump is using that term to shift the blame of his administration's early failures to act and place it on the Chinese.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Watched some researcher on Fox last night that claimed clinical tests showed 100% cure rate when using a decades old malaria medication on the China virus (gasp!  I said China).

    Also, why are folks getting their panties in a bunch over this being called the china virus or Chinese virus.  It originated in China!!!!  Of all the things to be worried about, this one is way down my list.
    Because Trump is using that term to shift the blame of his administration's early failures to act and place it on the Chinese.
    Get real, Jerm.  Trump acted within a few weeks of this being identified as a virus that could be spread from person to person.  If China had notified the world when they first realized what was going on, this could have been nipped in the bud.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    I still think its WAAAAY overblown.

    The best comparison is 9/11 and the GWOT. After 9/11 we took a lot of actions to try and mitigate the risks of terrorism. Since 9/11 there have very few successful terrorist attacks on American soil, and the few that have occurred have been relatively small in scale and impact. Does that mean all the money and effort we put into fighting terrorism was wasted or successful at reducing the risk or possibly both? We will never 100% know the answer to the question. All we can do is the best we can with the imperfect information we have. When it comes to risk the information is almost always at best probabilistic and highly uncertain.
    You intentionally omit mission creep. The Patriot Act and narcotic cases for example:

    Out of the 3,970 total requests from October 1, 2009 to September 30, 2010, 3,034 were for narcotics cases and only 37 for terrorism cases (about .9%). Since then, the numbers get worse. The 2011 report reveals a total of 6,775 requests. 5,093 were used for drugs, while only 31 (or .5%) were used for terrorism cases. The 2012 report follows a similar pattern: Only .6%, or 58 requests, dealt with terrorism cases. The 2013 report confirms the incredibly low numbers. Out of 11,129 reports only 51, or .5%, of requests were used for terrorism. The majority of requests were overwhelmingly for narcotics cases, which tapped out at 9,401 requests.


    The people supporting the government's response to COVID-19 also have their hands on the lid of Pandora's Box. They are allowing this **** to happen. Out of fear. 

    I can't wait for the next scare and how the excuses will roll in from the "it's to keep us safe!!!" crowd. 






    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/29/surprise-controversial-patriot-act-power-now-overwhelmingly-used-in-drug-investigations/
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,216 Senior Member
    edited March 2020 #135
    Get real, Jerm.  Trump acted within a few weeks of this being identified as a virus that could be spread from person to person.  If China had notified the world when they first realized what was going on, this could have been nipped in the bud.

    ...and the gaslighting begins! I am not saying China didn't go out of their way to cover it up. They did.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Get real, Jerm.  Trump acted within a few weeks of this being identified as a virus that could be spread from person to person.  If China had notified the world when they first realized what was going on, this could have been nipped in the bud.

    ...and the gaslighting begins! I am not saying China didn't go out of their way to cover it up. They did.
    I would respond to that, but I have no idea what you mean.

    FWIW, the reasons I've heard for objecting to this being called the China virus is that it's racist.  I disagree with that point, too.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    We already have a disaster called the china syndrome.

    So yea, Im on board with the whole china grievance. I say we call it the skid mark blues.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,216 Senior Member
    edited March 2020 #138
    The motivation for using the term "Chinese virus" is political. The new narrative that you will be getting fed from Trump and FOX News (they actually coordinate their messaging) is that what we are experiencing now is because China tried to cover up the virus and Donald Trump did everything humanly possible-- a perfect job... to protect us.

    The former is true. The later is not. Trump is saying this to deflect taking blame for his administration's poor early response. Blaming Obama didn't stick last week, so he is trying this one. If this doesn't work, he will throw Pence under the bus.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 7,928 Senior Member
    In fairness to Trump. I doubt anyone else would have done better. Aside from his transparently rediculous disingenuous statements at press conferences. Other Presidents have been better actors. A funny failure for a reality tv star. Im sure he'll supply plenty of fodder later.

    Throwing Pence under the bus could be of great historical interest.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Posts: 5,486 Senior Member
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,216 Senior Member
    In fairness to Trump. I doubt anyone else would have done better. Aside from his transparently ridiculous disingenuous statements at press conferences. Other Presidents have been better actors. A funny failure for a reality tv star. Im sure he'll supply plenty of fodder later.

    Throwing Pence under the bus could be of great historical interest.
    Maybe, maybe not. It probably would have happened closely to what we are getting regardless of who was in office. If they would have stopped it one place, it would have came in another. And Trump is correct that the CDC and FDA really wasn't set up for this kind of stuff and that they have had to adapt on the fly.

    That said, he was very aware of the potential (or should have been) back on January 22nd. Take a look at how at how his comments about this have shifted since then.


    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,216 Senior Member
    CaliFFL said:
    If it works, Trump will take the credit. If it doesn't, he will blame the Chinese.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 17,876 Senior Member
    edited March 2020 #143
    Also, why are folks getting their panties in a bunch over this being called the china virus or Chinese virus.  It originated in China!!!!  Of all the things to be worried about, this one is way down my list.
    Because Trump is using that term to shift the blame of his administration's early failures to act and place it on the Chinese.
    Comments like this make it look like you have a little TDS going on....Don't get me wrong, still love ya...but not everything is Trumps fault...

    Literally EVERYTHING that has or is going on was predicted by Emergency Planners years ago and 2as promptly disregarded by the powers that be (Federal, State and Local)with "What are the odds of that happening and can we spend money preparing for what MIGHT happen"

    I find it amazing that the government employs thousands of very qualified people whose job it is to think like bad guys and to come up with ways to deal with all the bad stuff that may come our was...and then promptly ignore their findings...

    And since the outbreak originated in China..."Chinese virus" is as good a name for it as any...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,216 Senior Member
    edited March 2020 #144
    Jayhawker said:
    Comments like this make it look like you have a little TDS going on....Don't get me wrong, still love ya...but not everything is Trumps fault...
    Nothing personal against Trump... but if you are in charge, guess what? This is your baby. You own it-- your fault or not. Trump's failing is that he denies any and all blame and takes no responsibility for anything that doesn't go right. Guess what? It comes with the job! You take the job, you take the blame. If he didn't want to take the blame, he should have stayed in Trump Tower throwing bombs on Twitter against whoever would have had the job.

    Instead of taking responsibility, he tries to shift the blame on the Chinese. While China does deserve blame, it is not exclusively theirs.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    edited March 2020 #145
    CaliFFL said:
    The drug is a derivative of good old fashioned quinine.   I’ll be having a LOT of fun drinking gin, for medicinal purposes, over the next few days!!!!  😎
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    So we're having the same stupid debate over what to call it as the left is.

    I'm sorry I mentioned it.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 889 Senior Member
    .
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 16,216 Senior Member
    No. I am telling you that calling it "Chinese virus" is a very deliberate attempt to change the narrative. Seriously. The ones calling it out because it is "racist", are morons and don't see the real reason.
    Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
    -Thomas Paine
  • AccipiterAccipiter New Member Posts: 889 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    The drug is a derivative of good old fashioned quinine.   I’ll be having a LOT of fun drinking gin, for medicinal purposes, over the next few days!!!!  😎
    Oh man, don’t tell anyone till I can get to the store and get some tonic.  It will go the way of the legendary charmin, and I will not be able to have a vodka tonic for months.
    Apparently free thought is punished, and conformity is required, while peckerless cowards run the show.

    ECHO...ECHO....echo...

    Ah......One savors the hypocrisy!

    Karma.........It’s a bitch.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    Accipiter said:
    GunNut said:
    The drug is a derivative of good old fashioned quinine.   I’ll be having a LOT of fun drinking gin, for medicinal purposes, over the next few days!!!!  😎
    Oh man, don’t tell anyone till I can get to the store and get some tonic.  It will go the way of the legendary charmin, and I will not be able to have a vodka tonic for months.
    Just mentioning it here...  I thought my friends should know first.
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Accipiter said:
    GunNut said:
    The drug is a derivative of good old fashioned quinine.   I’ll be having a LOT of fun drinking gin, for medicinal purposes, over the next few days!!!!  😎
    Oh man, don’t tell anyone till I can get to the store and get some tonic.  It will go the way of the legendary charmin, and I will not be able to have a vodka tonic for months.
    Just mentioning it here...  I thought my friends should know first.
    I hate the taste of gin.  I'll just take mine with a shot of good TN untaxed sippin' whiskey strait out of the Mason jar. That stuff will kill the taste of most anything added to it in small quantities. :D

      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
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