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Conceal ability v shoot ability in a cc weapon

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  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,817 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    knitepoet said:
    First rule of surviving a gunfight: HAVE A GUN

    I'l take my small "pocket rocket" 40 (Kahr PM40) dropped in my pocket vs my LW Commander that I didn't feel like dressing around, 8 days a week 
    Is the Khars trigger heavy enough to not need a holster of some sort?
    Yep, no holster needed.  I still do carry it in the same UM soft holster AIWB that I use for the Glock 43 and my Kimber UltraCarry only because I find it a faster deployment than pocket carry for the way I dress.  The trigger is not excessively long but nowhere near Glock twitchy.  
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,051 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I've gotta agree with Gene here.

    .............

    I don't care if it doesn't reliably provide one-shot stops. When it gets to that point, the only round count that matters is "How many left until reload?". Can I, a small framed male carry it inconspicuously matters a lot more to me than how big a hole my first shot is going to produce.

    Mike



    There is a point, I think, that common sense prevails. While the pictured rig might be okay for a close contact assassination in, say,  an elevator against an unsuspecting target (ala cold war USSR), as a defensive weapon I'd be relying on my feet instead.

    Mike



    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,744 Senior Member
    I carried one back in the late 70s.  LR.  It was a morale booster more than anything else.  Conceal ability was great, shoot ability was zero.  If you see the Robert Duval movie Assassination Tango, he uses one to shoot three people.  Not a great movie, but the  only movie I've ever seen with a NAA revolver.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,051 Senior Member
    In WWII, the OSS did a lot with less, but theirs were planned and usually a team effort. Discretion was always top priority. Nasty business all around.

    But, (and I know Zee was only kidding), anyone who depends on one of these for real SD would be much better off with a BenchMade Axis-Lock. The range will be the same, but the results light-years different.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,675 Senior Member
    My ideal carry gun is the size of the pictured NAA .22s (I actually have one!), but with the capacity and firepower of a BAR (I don't have one of those.). What less?
    My compromise is an LC9s, its shootablity is far better than a gun its size has any business being, and its small enough to conceal easily.
    Now I go on about the P365 - if it had been available when I bought the LC9s, I would have taken a good look at it, blah, blah. Ditto for the new SA pistol - BUT - I'm not sure I'd like the increased weight from the 3 or 4 extra rounds. *shrug* I do a fair amount of OBC as it is, Belly Dance costumes - practice or performance - aren't exactly conducive to hiding a firearm on body.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • BigDanSBigDanS Senior Member Posts: 6,973 Senior Member
    Zee said:
     I comfortably carry a compact .40cal and two spare mags along with 3 knives and an assortment of other daily trinkets 90% of the time. 

    Clearly excessive to some here. But, comforting and practical to me. 

    Life is good. 
    I believe it might have been Clint Smith that said, " A concealed handgun is not supposed to be comfortable, it is supposed to be comforting"
    "A patriot is mocked, scorned and hated; yet when his cause succeeds, all men will join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain
    Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.... now who's bringing the hot wings? :jester:
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,031 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    I've gotta agree with Gene here.

    .............

    I don't care if it doesn't reliably provide one-shot stops. When it gets to that point, the only round count that matters is "How many left until reload?". Can I, a small framed male carry it inconspicuously matters a lot more to me than how big a hole my first shot is going to produce.

    Mike



    There is a point, I think, that common sense prevails. While the pictured rig might be okay for a close contact assassination in, say,  an elevator against an unsuspecting target (ala cold war USSR), as a defensive weapon I'd be relying on my feet instead.

    Mike



    😎
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • rbsivleyrbsivley Senior Member Posts: 1,166 Senior Member
    I carry a 1911 cocked and locked and 2 extra magazines. Better to have too many than not enough. Seems to be more assaults with more than one criminal around here.
    Randy

    Rank does not concur privileges. It imposes responsibility. Author unknown

    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God 9 not by works, lest any man should boast.
    Ephesians 2:8-9
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,744 Senior Member
    The reason I posted this is because I carry (sometimes) a J-frame .38, and I'm confronted with either carrying it for the maximum conceal abilty, with original magnas and a grip adapter, which adds no bulk, or with a rubber oversized Pachmyer grip, which improves the comfort in shooting. But it adds more bulk and is more noticeable.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • GilaGila Posts: 1,828 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    The reason I posted this is because I carry (sometimes) a J-frame .38, and I'm confronted with either carrying it for the maximum conceal abilty, with original magnas and a grip adapter, which adds no bulk, or with a rubber oversized Pachmyer grip, which improves the comfort in shooting. But it adds more bulk and is more noticeable.
    I sometimes carry a S&W AirLite .357 similar your .38.  If you want to discuss shoot ability, try one of them on for size... 
    No good deed goes unpunished...
  • 104RFAST104RFAST Senior Member Posts: 1,281 Senior Member
    In addition to my car gun ( P95) I keep a J frame 38 in case I feel the need
    to have something in my pocket . Mostly late night pit stops at a Kwik Stop, although I don't do that often sense I retired from flying. Back in the day, I 
    had several late night moments of concern at convenience stores at 2 am.
    When considering convenience, a J frame in my pocket gets it done, 12 months from now, who knows?  
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,744 Senior Member
    Accipiter said:
    I see see no reason to compromise in most circumstances.
    I illustrated ONE situation where you have to compromise and the limited example of my front pocket with a 442.  (In the General Firearms post.)  The big shootability grips make it impossible to carry in my pocket because you can see the butt in my pockets  poking out, and the svelte magnas+Tyler make it damn hard to shoot in the shoot ability   But they're an improvement on the rubber S&W OEM  department.  I think I'm done with the J-frame lightweight revolvers, although it could be a get-off-me gun. I've gpt a 36, which I may try in the future.  But I doubt it.

    I've got a better pocket pistol in every way, the Sig 365...great trigger, fits my hand, higher capacity, and is more powerful, but I can't warm up to it for some reason. Maybe I need more practice. Accurate, mag capacity...yep.  For revolvers I trust my Model 65 3", which is heavy, has only one round more that the 442, but it's a helluva SD gun.

    Maybe I'm, in my old age, going retro and back to my youth.  My PPK .32 weighs the same as my Sig 365, has less mag capacity, was imported when I went to Viet Nam, (last of the pistols before the ban)  and made in Germany (or finished i n Germany when they couldn't produce pistols)  but I shoot it well.  I may carry it.  Also got a .380 PPK stainless, it shoots a little better, more recoil, marginally more accurate, but it does bite a little.  Both are more concealable than my revolvers in the pocket.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • ArmoredmanArmoredman Member Posts: 362 Member
    I used to carry a full size CZ SP01 Phantom in an IWB rig with no problem. I moved to a compact P-10C simply because I could. Big loose t-shirts work wonders even in AZ heat. Good solid gun belt and quality holster are the key.
  • bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior Member Posts: 2,543 Senior Member
    Shootability is paramount.  All of my carry guns were first chosen because I liked the design and shot them well.  I start training with it, and when I get comfortable and confident, I find a holster for it and train for concealed carry.  When I have that down, it goes into the rotation. I figure that's a solid process. 
    Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,222 Senior Member
    edited January 30 #46
    Not a fan of subcompacts. I have yet to find one that is fits in hand well enough to want to shoot it.Next time I go to the range I will see what they have to rent in subcompacts but meh. Give me a normal compact like the 669 S&W or any of the newer compacts. There is a fine line between concealability and usability.


    On my short list is a 3 inch Ruger Sp101 in 357 and the bobbed hammer. Ran a box of full house magnums through it when I rented it last year and had no issues. Light, no, but it will do the job. The Ruger LCR in 38 special was so light, that it kicked far more. That was unpleasant. 
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 11,744 Senior Member
    edited February 2 #47
    My shooting buddy has a Ruger 101 and likes it a lot.  He shoots it pretty well with .357s, too.  It's kinda heavy and I don't know if it's a pocket gun.  I've seen folks here who carry the LC 9, which is very small, filling the concealability factor, but I've heard they're not fun to shoot.  So there it is...I've never fired one.  Don't like hammer fired small pistols, assuming the LC is hammer fired,


    So I guess it depends on what you want or possibly need in the situation you're in...shootability or concealability.  Both are important choices. The NAA is one extreme, a Model 29 is at the other end.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 23,675 Senior Member
    edited February 2 #48
    LC9 is hammer fired, the newer LC9s and EC9s are striker fired. I have an LC9s as my carry piece and like it. It isn't really unpleasant to shoot (to me).
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,928 Senior Member
    Tugar said:


    The Ruger LCR in 38 special was so light, that it kicked far more. That was unpleasant. 
    If you think the .38 Special was unpleasant...you ought to try the .357 Mag. Version...talk about a handful...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • TugarTugar Senior Member Posts: 2,222 Senior Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Tugar said:


    The Ruger LCR in 38 special was so light, that it kicked far more. That was unpleasant. 
    If you think the .38 Special was unpleasant...you ought to try the .357 Mag. Version...talk about a handful...
    Lol...they didn't have one or I might have tried it. I could see the LCRX in 357. The larger grip would make a difference. 
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
    Winston Churchill
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,394 Senior Member
     I know fit finish and function are important but concealability is my first goal wth carry.  I can learn to shoot anything with practice. I'm looking at more concealable guns right now. I found a nice little Kahr that fits my pocket and my pocket book well. It seems a bit small for my hand but I will practice-practice-practice until I get t right.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,931 Senior Member
    snake284 said:
     I know fit finish and function are important but concealability is my first goal wth carry.  I can learn to shoot anything with practice. I'm looking at more concealable guns right now. I found a nice little Kahr that fits my pocket and my pocket book well. It seems a bit small for my hand but I will practice-practice-practice until I get t right.
    While I pretty much agree with you here. There is a but.  I purchased a Glock 43, it was brand new just released and I got one at the AFB 
    Took it to the range and I was all over the target.  Figured its new.......
    Fast forward to today, I still shoot shotgun patterns with it.  It is sold, waiting on a friends next visit to exchange it for cash.  Next purchase will be a Sig P365, I was smart enough this time to shoot one a few times before pulling out my RAT money for a gun.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • MikialMikial Posts: 1 New Member
    This is a great topic.

    I work in a very non-permissive environment, so I have to carry in deep concealment every day because I refuse to be unarmed. For a long time I carried a Keltec PF9 because it fit easily in my pocket in a pocket holster. It was concealable, reliable and I practiced with it every week so I could shoot a very respectable group at 25 feet. But it had a trigger like a staple gun, as does the Ruger LCP. So I've opted for a slightly larger G2S with a much better trigger.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,096 Senior Member
    @Mikial Welcome to the forum
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 12,643 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    @Mikial Welcome to the forum
    Ditto, welcome, hey.
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,960 Senior Member
    On Feb 29 I posted that I obtained a CZ M-82 9x18, since than I've been playing with it, its about the same size as my 44 Bulldog, smaller than my 1911 and lighter and thinner than both and its the first pistol that I can use a IWB holster. I have been checking out ammo and I like Buffalo Bore 115gr. FN hard cast load, I've been carrying it dry around the house with just a large "T" shirt over it and my wife didnt even notice it at first. It will never replace my 44 but for local quick trips I think it will work out fine.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,401 Senior Member
    Concealability. Hands down. That is not saying that you dont have to be able to shoot it.

    Can I shoot my Kimber 1911 better than the PF9. Not from a carry perspective, because the odds are that the Kimber will be at home.

    Is the PF9 fun to shoot? No. Does that matter? No. Does it carry well? Yes. What matters is I can shoot it to where I am pretty comfortable that as long as I am not taking on a trained, heavily armed and coordinated group, I can use it well enough to get me home.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
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