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.38 Spl - Load Work & Testing

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Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member
    Why didn't you seat them to crimp at the canelure???
    That’s how they do it from the factory. 

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    edited July 19 #93
    Jay said:
    Not to be a downer or anything, but something doesn’t seem right to me... 6.6gr with the bullet seated that deep seems like it would be more than a +p load. But, I also have no load data for that bullet. Seems like 4-4.5 grains would be more like it. But I could be wrong... that just seems like a lot with no volume in the case. 

    Yeah, that's 357 mag, plus range. 
    Looking at Alliant's 38spcl +p The max load they list is 6.3gr of Unique with a 110gr Golddot @ 1.445" COAL.
    Heavier, harder (jacket vs.plated) bullet, seated a WHOLE bunch deeper...
    I'm thinking 6.0 gr in 357 mag brass for mine

    Your gun, your hands, and your face, so do what you wish, but ain't no way in hell I want to hold the gun, or be anywhere in close proximity to one of those rounds being fired. 

    edited to add:
    I suggest taking a wood/rubber mallet to the range with you, to tap the ejector rod with (BTDT before myself)
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member
    Jay said:
    Not to be a downer or anything, but something doesn’t seem right to me... 6.6gr with the bullet seated that deep seems like it would be more than a +p load. But, I also have no load data for that bullet. Seems like 4-4.5 grains would be more like it. But I could be wrong... that just seems like a lot with no volume in the case. 
    I was wondering about that. 
    6.6 gr is what I used for the 125gr Bullets above. But, they were not seated as deep. 
    Then, when it turned out to be a slightly compressed load.......my feelers went up. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,827 Senior Member
    I’m seeing discussions using QL saying 7.1gr as max in a 357 mag case with estimated 900fps using 4.5gr in 357 cases.... 😬
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,827 Senior Member
    Yeah. I’d probably start with 158gr DEWC load data and work up to 900-1000fps slowly... That makes me nervous... 🤪
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,827 Senior Member
    I’m seeing data for 158gr dewc starting 3.7, max 4.2. I’d probably start with 4 grains if it was me. 😎👍
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member
    Thanks guys. I pulled the Bullets. 

    What load should I start with?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,827 Senior Member
    If you seated to the canelure you could probably do 6.5 grains. Seating them like a wadcutter, I’d probably start with 4 grains, chronograph and adjust from there. I plan to seat mine to the canelure. I don’t have a 38 special chambered gun, so mine will only be used in 357 mag chambers. 
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    edited July 19 #100
    Zee said:
    Thanks guys. I pulled the Bullets. 

    What load should I start with?
    I agree with the your "model" 4.0gr or maybe a little under would be my thoughts as well in a 38spcl case
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,827 Senior Member
    edited July 19 #101
    If Lyman say you can do 4.2gr with a flush seated 158 grain lead, I’d feel pretty good with 4 grains and a deep seated 130gr jacketed bullet. If one really wanted to play it safe, 3.8 grains might be a good start. 
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member
    Thanks again, guys. Probably saved my Carney Hands. 4.0gr Unique loaded.
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    To get an idea, I just ran QL with a 125gr Hornady XTP seated with the tip BARELY outside the case mouth (1.2" COAL in a 1.145" case) and 6.6gr
    It's coming back at over 2x max 38spcl +P pressure and over 7K PSI above max 357 mag pressure.

    Using that set up, QL says barely over 900fps is the max speed from a 3" bbl with any powder and 843fps with 4.3gr of Unique.

    Not as accurate as using that exact bullet, but the closest I could figure out how to do
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    I'd crimp them in the canelure if they don't exceed the cylinder length. They're likely not prone to entering the throats crooked because of the cylindrical shape so maybe flush seating is fine.

    Im glad you didn't shoot those in that danty little gun.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Thanks again, guys. Probably saved my Carney Hands. 4.0gr Unique loaded.
    You're welcome, glad Jay caught it. 
    Would it have damaged the gun or you? Unknown, but it wouldn't have been good, and had serious potential of damage/injury
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,827 Senior Member
    Looking forward to seeing the results with that load. 👍
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    edited July 19 #107
    @earlyagain, That cannelure is there to lock the jacket and core together, though really, not sure there's a reason why you can't crimp in it. Though not sure what the COAL would be
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    Ah, didn't realize that. It'll take less powder to get the desired speed with em' seated flush. Good economy in a drought......
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member
    edited July 19 #109
    Probably won’t seat in the cylinder. 
    I’ll go try one. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member
    edited July 19 #110
    Well, they fit fine!
    Guess I’ll load some up that way as well!
    Then I can use 6.6gr Unique! 😁

    Yes?
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    :popcorn:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member

    Alright.....THESE are loaded with 6.6gr Unique!  The same load I used for the 125gr Magnus Bullets earlier in the thread. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • earlyagainearlyagain Posts: 6,748 Senior Member
    They look pretty both ways.

    Your pics are so good, I just noticed the elaborate full length scoring of the jacket for aiding symmetrical expansion. Impressive.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    Be interested in your chronograph results between the 2 charges. 2 COALs
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member
    knitepoet said:
    Be interested in your chronograph results between the 2 charges. 2 COALs
    I am too. That’s why I did it. 
    Science!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    FYI, I still think the 6.6 might be a little on the HOT side, be curious to see if I'm correct, or full of it.
    While you've successfully used it with a different bullet, the difference in hardness and bearing surface might make quite a difference
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,827 Senior Member
    Yeah, they might be a little warm for a non +p rated gun with that bullet. But I don’t think they’d be unreasonable if you’re not gonna shoot a lot of them. 6 gr would probably be a bit better for something that’s going to be shot much. Just my guess. I’m looking forward to the report as well. 
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 3,827 Senior Member
    They do look cool. 😎 Can’t wait to get mine and give them a try. Wonder what the upper velocity threshold is on those?.... 🤔 
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    edited July 19 #119
    Jay said:
    They do look cool. 😎 Can’t wait to get mine and give them a try. Wonder what the upper velocity threshold is on those?.... 🤔 

    Since I'm going to be loading mine in 357 mag brass, I might try 1 or 2 with a "warm" load of either H110 or Li'l Gun into some gallon water jugs and try them out of the 6"  with the closed/tuned BC gap instead of the stock 4"
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 23,774 Senior Member

    Neither load was very accurate in my gun. Noticeable difference in recoil between the two loads. And velocity!

    The deep seated 4.0gr load was slower than I want for this Bullet. So, I didn’t even expansion test that load. It was a powder puff in recoil, though. 

    The long seated load with 6.6gr Unique was more to my velocity liking at 989 fps but, accuracy still wasn’t great. 
    It was an impressive 3 Jugger on penetration. The best of all the loads I’ve tried in consideration of penetration + expansion. 





    Not sure what I’m going to do. I could play around and try for better accuracy. But I’m not sure 10ths of grains are gonna do it for me. I don’t want to lose velocity, that’s for sure. Or at least not much. 
    I’ll see how the other guys fair with their loads and maybe go from there. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 20,987 Senior Member
    edited July 19 #121
    Think 5 jugs will be enough to catch one??
    If I'm going to do this...
    1 round of factory 38spcl +p from 4" Mod 15 (Stashed HD revolver)
    1 round of 6.0gr Unique from 4" 686 in 357 Mag case
    1 round of "warm" h110/li'l gun (depends on what QL tells me) from tuned 6" 686. (probably seated long for max velocity)

    If I can come up with enough jugs, MAYBE 1 round of factory 38+p from the 6"

    Unfortunately, last time I tried it, my Chronograph had gone tango uniform, even with a new battery, so I may not be able to get velocities

    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


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