Well, looking @ QL, I SHOULDbe able to safely top 1500fps with either H110 or Li'l gun, seated long. Be curious to see how they react to that kind of speed.
Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.
The target with the heavier charge has two holes out of the three that appear slightly elongated as if the bullet may not have been completely stable in flight.
The expansion looks to be completely in depth back to the full length of the cavity. Expansion could maybe be as good at reduced speed?
Given the better accuracy of the slower load and above observations. A slightly slower speed could maybe offer a desired effect?
Not that interested in wasting the few bullets I have just to test accuracy of a load pushing them way outside their design envelope. I am willing to wasted one or two just to see how they perform at close to 1.5-2x their designed speed
Plan is, once I test the 6.0gr of unique and see it does what I want, I'll load up the rest of either a 50, or 100 count ammo box (whichever I find first in the man cave) full and use them for "GP" loads in the 4" Which will include accuracy, sight adjustment etc.
edited to add: my goal with the 4"/Unique load is ~1000fps MV Should be in the upper end of design velocity at the muzzle, and basically being a wadcutter, should still be in the "envelope" at 25+ yards
Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.
I finally got some free time and read all the other posts. I'm really glad you didn't blow yourself up or damage that gun experimenting. 😌
Anyway, there should be a load in 38 that your revolver actually likes. Considering how thoroughly the bullet expanded tells me you have wiggle room to go up or down (most likely down) in velocity where the groups will tighten up without losing too much performance.
Like you, I'm waiting for what the other guys come up with.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
I’d bet Titegroup will give better accuracy and velocity, based on my experience with it. Playing the 25 yard bullseye game, I tend to go to that powder a lot. But, I caution everyone I tell about that powder, it’s not Unique. Often you’ll see book data with less than 1/2 a grain difference between starting load and max load. It’s a fast powder. You’ll see better velocity and accuracy pretty frequently. But .3gr could be the difference between bang and boom... on the plus side, at 4 grains per charge, you can get 14,000 charges out of 8 pounds of powder..
Ill be trying those bullets seated to the canelure with Titegroup when I get mine. Only thing is, the shortest gun I haven’t is a 6” GP100.
Trail Boss loads are made. Was able to put 4.6gr in the case just below the bullet base. I don’t expect it to be fast. But, if it’s accurate, I’ll do an expansion test regardless.
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
125 GDHP 6" barrel and Unique @ 5.7 grains (980f/s)
Also, 38 Special +p
135 GDHP 6" barrel and Unique @ 5.2 grains (988f/s)
The trend here when using a heavier bullet is to use a lighter charge (maybe 5.6).
Since you're already off the reservation. You might want to try something between 6.0 and 6.3
If you want something "safer" or less "wear and tear" on the gun, I wouldn't go above 5.7 (4.7-5.3 in the standard pressure-ish range)
Yeah, velocity is going to suffer but if you can find something in the neighborhood of about 850 f/s, I think the performance of those HST's will be good enough.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
I'm sure Alliant is dumbing down the numbers because I have a older Speer manual with higher numbers than what's on the Alliant website but that's what they're listing today.
I'm thinking, creep the load down until the groups tighten up a bit (6.4, 6.2, 6.0, etc). If the groups don't tighten up then there's not much you can do. Find a speed/performance combo you like and call it good.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
When electronic sensors replaced copper pressure cups for testing ignition pressure. It was discovered that Unique reached peak pressure early in the duration of ignition, and that peak pressure was greater than what was calculated with the old CUP system. Changes and/or reductions in recommended charge weights followed.
When electronic sensors replaced copper pressure cups for testing ignition pressure. It was discovered that Unique reached peak pressure early in the duration of ignition, and that peak pressure was greater than what was calculated with the old CUP system. Changes and/or reductions in recommended charge weights followed.
Yeah, piezoelectric transducers give a clearer picture of the pressure curve over time versus CUP or LUP. It makes sense that powder manufacturers want to cover their bases against law suits.
Since a longer duration, lower pressure pulse can crush the cylinder as
much as a shorter duration, higher pressure pulse, CUP and LUP pressures
frequently register lower than actual peak pressures (as measured by a transducer) by up to 20%.
Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
Okay Zedrick, I'm making progress The "Zee height" ones are loaded with 6.0gr of Unique The "full growed" ones are crimped in the cannelure.
I contemplated using either H110 or Li'l Gun. Browsing through my powder magazine I'm out of H110, so it was an easy decision to go with Li'l gun. XX.Xgr, which SHOULD be "safe" and within pressure limits. but until I test fire them, I won't post the actual charge. Using the settings I used with the 125gr XTP to guesstimate things, QL says the 6" should be at 1516fps. If the velocity is close to, or below that, I'll let you know the charge. If I'm running over 1600FPS, QL says I'm running excessive pressure and I'll know not to put it on a public forum, where someone else might be tempted to try it
edited to add: Might be a a few days before I get to test them Chrono's due tomorrow, but I have to work Wed and Thur, Not sure if I'll have time Thur morning before work or not, so Fri or Sat are better options
Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.
Oh, and if you noticed, I loaded 5 of each. 1 ea for shooting into water from both my 4 and 6" 686 and the remaining 3 for accuracy testing through my scoped, tuned 6"
Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.
Replies
Be curious to see how they react to that kind of speed.
The expansion looks to be completely in depth back to the full length of the cavity. Expansion could maybe be as good at reduced speed?
Given the better accuracy of the slower load and above observations. A slightly slower speed could maybe offer a desired effect?
Though I suspect it would be "okay"
Plan is, once I test the 6.0gr of unique and see it does what I want, I'll load up the rest of either a 50, or 100 count ammo box (whichever I find first in the man cave) full and use them for "GP" loads in the 4" Which will include accuracy, sight adjustment etc.
edited to add: my goal with the 4"/Unique load is ~1000fps MV
Should be in the upper end of design velocity at the muzzle, and basically being a wadcutter, should still be in the "envelope" at 25+ yards
How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
Might actually chrono them as well
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
Ill be trying those bullets seated to the canelure with Titegroup when I get mine. Only thing is, the shortest gun I haven’t is a 6” GP100.
How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain
Sometimes the best things in life are the simple pleasures
The "Zee height" ones are loaded with 6.0gr of Unique
The "full growed" ones are crimped in the cannelure.
I contemplated using either H110 or Li'l Gun.
Browsing through my powder magazine I'm out of H110, so it was an easy decision to go with Li'l gun. XX.Xgr, which SHOULD be "safe" and within pressure limits. but until I test fire them, I won't post the actual charge.
Using the settings I used with the 125gr XTP to guesstimate things, QL says the 6" should be at 1516fps.
If the velocity is close to, or below that, I'll let you know the charge. If I'm running over 1600FPS, QL says I'm running excessive pressure and I'll know not to put it on a public forum, where someone else might be tempted to try it
edited to add: Might be a a few days before I get to test them Chrono's due tomorrow, but I have to work Wed and Thur, Not sure if I'll have time Thur morning before work or not, so Fri or Sat are better options
1 ea for shooting into water from both my 4 and 6" 686 and the remaining 3 for accuracy testing through my scoped, tuned 6"