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Myth/Reality - Fact/Fiction

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  • JKPJKP Senior Member Posts: 2,246 Senior Member
    I'd bet more have been killed (poached) with .22LR than 30-30....
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,764 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    Some economist / statistics guy could have a ball making suppositions on this.

    The 1894 Winchester had its genesis when T.G. Bennett told John Browning "We really like what you did with the 1886, but it needs to be CHEAPER".  So the 1894 was low cost compared to the '86 and the '95, but both of those were capable of shooting bigger stuff.

    And it while it was probably cheap - FOR A WINCHESTER - there was still probably a bit of an elevated price point for fit, finish, & name recognition.   Our economist / statistics guy would have to look at what the period equivalents to the 700 ADL and Savage 110 were, and what their sales figures looked like.

    Now I'm kinda wanting to learn more how the bolt action began horning in on the U.S. lever and single shot market.  The .30-40 Krag got chambered in a lot of platforms, was more capable, and would have had the benefit of bulk military manufacture lowering ammo cost.  The "wake up call" of the 7x57 in Cuba was not lost on the military, and it was probably not lost on the sportsmen either, but I'm not aware of much going on in the commercial bolt gun market until after WWI.

    That said, there WAS a push toward autoloaders in that general period - i.e. the Remington Model 8.

    Kinda wondering if most of the .30-30's popularity was due to it being the only brand of jeans on the rack at the time.
    I think it was the "best" brand of jeans for a bit.  Folks were used to lever actions being the best field tool, heads above the old single shots and the 30-30 was the fist modern offer in Smokeless powder, before bolt actions became ubiquitous and the advantages were realized by a new generation of GIs and adoption facilitated by the scores of milsurps being dumped into the civilian markets.  So for a period of a few decades the 30-30 was THE rifle to have.  Scopes were not in the equation so ability to easily scope was not an issue.

    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Great OutdoorsGreat Outdoors Member Posts: 314 Member
    In the eastern half of the country- almost everyone I know has one and they use them pretty regular when hunting in the woods- I kill a deer with mine every year in the gun rotation, as do my sons and the grandsons have also gotten into the 30-30. We all also use scoped long range capable rifles and semi autos- but the old 30-30 still gets plenty of use
    I have 4 in my safe( and a 357 lever) and all 4 will take a deer or hog this year.

    If the gun grabbers ever ban semi auto's and confiscate- the old lever makes a fine combat firearm, holds a good amount of ammo and can be reloaded on the fly without disabling the rifle
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,764 Senior Member
    In the eastern half of the country- almost everyone I know has one and they use them pretty regular when hunting in the woods- I kill a deer with mine every year in the gun rotation, as do my sons and the grandsons have also gotten into the 30-30. We all also use scoped long range capable rifles and semi autos- but the old 30-30 still gets plenty of use
    I have 4 in my safe( and a 357 lever) and all 4 will take a deer or hog this year.

    If the gun grabbers ever ban semi auto's and confiscate- the old lever makes a fine combat firearm, holds a good amount of ammo and can be reloaded on the fly without disabling the rifle
    Oh I agree!  I just got a Rossi 92 in .357 and most folks don’t realize the rain of hell you can deliver with one of those...
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,146 Senior Member
    [thread drift] My kiddo just ran my Marlin 357 lever for a while and told me it was now “his” gun for walking around on the ranch. [\thread drift]

    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,764 Senior Member
    [thread drift] My kiddo just ran my Marlin 357 lever for a while and told me it was now “his” gun for walking around on the ranch. [\thread drift]

    I LIKE your kid!!  😂
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,026 Senior Member
    I've never had any interest at all in handgun chamberings in carbine/rifle platforms. But....for some reason an iron-sighted  .357 lever action is starting to appeal to me.

    And I'm not even a lever guy. 

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 5,764 Senior Member
    I've never had any interest at all in handgun chamberings in carbine/rifle platforms. But....for some reason an iron-sighted  .357 lever action is starting to appeal to me.

    And I'm not even a lever guy. 

    Mike
    I understand you.  I absolutely never wanted one.  Not even an ounce of desire for one!  Until I got one and shot it!  Damn that was SWEET!!!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 10,903 Senior Member
    [thread drift] My kiddo just ran my Marlin 357 lever for a while and told me it was now “his” gun for walking around on the ranch. [\thread drift]

    A very good choice for a walking around rifle.
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    [thread drift] My kiddo just ran my Marlin 357 lever for a while and told me it was now “his” gun for walking around on the ranch. [\thread drift]

    A very good choice for a walking around rifle.
    Yep...great rifle for pasture patrol
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JaphyJaphy Posts: 65 Member
    Another thing to consider is the deer population and distribution in the US. Before large scale farming the available food supply was less.  Deer populations in the Midwest have rocketed up since the 1940s. My Midwest farming relatives have long told me deer were not commonly seen until late 1940s and they did not hunt deer before then. 

    my vote would be 3006 which became widely available as the deer population increased. The standard deer rig in that part of the country has been and still is Remington 700 3006
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    When I was coming up in Kansas in the late 50s, seeing a deer was a rare thing, as a matter of fact, we have a vintage newspaper article from Plainville,KS, describing how my Dad saw a deer while he was working....
    Flash forward...the state is crawling with both mule deer and whitetail and people come from all over to hunt there.
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,146 Senior Member
    Even in the early 80’s when I was in Northwestern Illinois, deer were rare to see in the woods and fields.  AAMOF, I only ever saw one buck that I remember in several years (and it was a monster!), and the bow hunter that we let hunt on the land never got one that I knew of.

    From what I understand, its much different now, and lots of people hunt there now.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 3,890 Senior Member
    Even in the early 80’s when I was in Northwestern Illinois, deer were rare to see in the woods and fields.  AAMOF, I only ever saw one buck that I remember in several years (and it was a monster!), and the bow hunter that we let hunt on the land never got one that I knew of.

    From what I understand, its much different now, and lots of people hunt there now.
    Lots of big deer in northwestern Illinois where I used to hunt but they are usually Taken during archery season. By the time gun season rolled around they got smart. I never did get a big one close enough for a handgun or shotgun kill.  
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,026 Senior Member
    In the 60's deer were scarcer than hen's teeth in Louisiana. When I was a young kid I knew a gent, mid-50's, who had killed 7 deer in his life....and he was considered a semi-God by the local deer hunters.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,292 Senior Member
    In the late 70s, seeing a deer track on my grandfather's farm was a treat. We used to look for deer when we were on the Natchez Trace because they were so rare.

    Now we dread seeing them on the Trace. Saw 1 this afternoon.
  • Great OutdoorsGreat Outdoors Member Posts: 314 Member
    In the 60's deer were scarcer than hen's teeth in Louisiana. When I was a young kid I knew a gent, mid-50's, who had killed 7 deer in his life....and he was considered a semi-God by the local deer hunters.

    Mike
    In the mid 80's in coastal SC- I killed 7- in one day, dog driving land they were going to clear cut and wanted all the deer killed off. We had no limit back then- now the limit is 13
  • JaphyJaphy Posts: 65 Member
    my my earlier point was that there were few deer to hunt before 1960s and by then the Remington 700 and it’s predecessors were being manufactured by the 100,000s and were affordable 3006 being the most common. As the deer population exploded so did hunting. I am most familiar with Missouri which hosts hunters from all over are there every November to harvest all those grain fed whitetails.
  • Great OutdoorsGreat Outdoors Member Posts: 314 Member
    My first was with an 03A3- second with a Winchester 30wcf, 3rd with a Springfield single shot 20 gauge. Whatever we had was what we used.
  • JaphyJaphy Posts: 65 Member
    One tidbit
    the Winchester 1894 is a John Moses Browning design. But then this group probably knew that
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 16,916 Senior Member
    Japhy said:
    One tidbit
    the Winchester 1894 is a John Moses Browning design. But then this group probably knew that
    I would say that's a foregone conclusion :)
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • pjames777pjames777 Senior Member Posts: 1,421 Senior Member
    Possibly the "lever action" rifle is credited more then the 30-30 as most assume that the the lever action in the scabbard/truck is a 30-30?
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 8,249 Senior Member
    pjames777 said:
    Possibly the "lever action" rifle is credited more then the 30-30 as most assume that the the lever action in the scabbard/truck is a 30-30?
    Probably quite correct.  My dad is into old single shots and other late black powder era stuff, and it seems that every single Bubba at the range wants to walk up and tout their knowledge by asking "Is that a .45-70?", expecting us to reply with "Why, yes, it is".  When we start discussing things like .32-40, .40-70 Sharps Bottleneck, .40-82 or .45-75 Winchester, they usually blink a couple times and walk away. :D   

    Applying a little 20/20 hindsight to the discussion of .357 Magnum lever guns. . .the .30-30 lever action probably isn't really much more or less capable a deer killer than anything that has been chambered in revolvers - either pre- or post-smokeless.  It's not picking up much for a point-blank trajectory and probably little to nothing for terminal effect.  Quite possibly, it's just restrictions on handgun carry that boosted the .30-30 in popularity over the "combo calibers".
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
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