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Bad or impractical hunting/fishing regulation?

JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior MemberPodunk, Tx.Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
The sidetrack (thanks, Snake) in the camp meat thread gave me this idea. So, if you don't like it, blame him and the war monkey.

Anyway, I thought it might be fun, and even educational, to have a thread like this. Perhaps some misconceptions can be cleared up, and it even might be kind of fun to see what we used to have to deal with, etc.

I'll start with what I consider to a bad reg. Years ago, I remember reading this in Sports Afield, or a similar magazine. The article was about stupid game laws, or something like that. One of the stupid laws in some states was the requirement to tag your downed game immediately, regardless of where it was killed. The stupid part had to do with the possibility of losing your tag, while attached to your kill, while dragging or carrying it through thick cover or over rough terrain. I understand the purpose of the law, but it could have been implemented differently. In Colorado today, you have to 'validate' your tag by tearing of the carcass tag portion as soon as you recover your kill. However, you don't have to attach it to the animal until you get it to a place where it's reasonable to do so. An improvement, in my opinion.

Which brings me to a slightly impractical reg. Also in Colorado, to validate your tag, you have to sign it. The tags are printed on a tough, glossy material that doesn't accept pen and ink well, so it's kind of difficult to sign it at best. Plus, you need to have a pen or pencil with you while hunting. I suppose that's no big deal, and I usually carry one, but it could be a hassle for some. I remember getting stopped by a game warden once while I was driving out with a deer I had shot. He checked me out, and noticed that I had failed to sign my tag. I had simply overlooked it. He was gracious about it, though, and allowed me to sign it there as I had done everything else right. He also told me that some wardens would not be so generous, and to make sure I signed me tag from then on.

I also think some of the laws that prohibit the taking of spike bucks, require that a buck's antlers have a certain spread minimum, etc. can lead to problems. I have no doubt that all such regulations were well intended when instituted, but I wonder if the powers that be really thought it through.

Next.
Jerry

Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
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Replies

  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,620 Senior Member
    California Condor Zone lead ammo ban. Pre and post enactment studies seem to indicate that bullets in gut piles are not their problem, yet we continue to complicate the lives of thousands of hunters - supposedly for the sake of a Pleistocene buzzard that's dying off mainly because it no longer has llarge mammoth and beached whale carcasses to eat.
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 4,711 Senior Member
    Not that I disagree with the reg, it does have it's place but what about evidence of sex when you hold an ether sex tag?
    I have a similar game warden story from my first and only antelope hunt in Colorado. Which also was my first ever big game kill. I had shot a doe and my dad was teaching me how to field dress it out. It had required a finishing shot which I delivered to the head with my .357mag. Kind of made the head messy so I just took it off. While working on the other end I made the mistake of cutting off the teats as well. Beginners mistake. I signed and properly tagged the carcass and dragged it back to the truck.
    The game warden had heard the shot and was waiting at the gate as we headed out of the field. He of coarse stopped us, checked guns, permits and the carcass. He noticed my mistake and after a lecture made me show him the gut pile.
    He did not cite me for anything for which I was happy but seriously, it seemed a bit much when I held the tag I did.

    Sako
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Inability to utilize suppressors to take game animals. Ummmmm, why not?

    Yeah that annoys me. We tried to fix that one in MT but it got killed in house because "they don't want poachers running around silently killing things". I have sense emailed the sponsors or the bill with documented info on rifle dB levels and what a well made suppressor will do for that (which isn't much) they hope to re-submit and have it passed next year

    What really annoys me in MT is the 2 deer a year limit when they are all over the road side dead all the time. Just give us 1 more tag, that's all I'm askin
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 9,620 Senior Member
    Quinian wrote: »
    Yeah that annoys me. We tried to fix that one in MT but it got killed in house because "they don't want poachers running around silently killing things".

    Yes. I'm sure those poachers are terribly concerned about the legal status of the gear they use for their illegal activities. :roll:
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Podunk, Tx.Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    sakodude wrote: »
    Not that I disagree with the reg, it does have it's place but what about evidence of sex when you hold an ether sex tag?

    If there's point or antler/horn size restriction on the bucks/bulls, I can see why you need to keep and/or evidence of sex. Otherwise, it seems pretty silly to me.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    Yes. I'm sure those poachers are terribly concerned about the legal status of the gear they use for their illegal activities. :roll:

    lol yeah no kiddin but that argument doesn't work. Just need to show them that a suppressor does NOT make you silent. Gemtech offers 32dB reduction from the 150-170 your rifle puts out with super sonic ammo. That is still loud enough to be painful. Even with sub sonic you're still going to be hitting around 80-90dB. Just trying to play their game.

    As to not side track too much. A good reg we have here: the fish and bird limits are daily with posession being twice daily. I asked a warden just to make sure and he said so long as you're eating them and you don't currently hold the limit you can keep on shootin em. So if you like birds and fish which I do, you can really go nuts on them.
  • NNNN Senior Member NCPosts: 25,200 Senior Member
    We used to have that tag the animal before moving the animal. I thought it would be a problem so I did one of two options.

    1. put the tag in a plastic parts bag and used electrical tape to cover it in tape on an antler.

    2. Use a small parts bag, tie the tag inside an ear, and then tie the ear closed like a pouch with string.

    Now instead of tags we have a sheet of tags that do not tear off and all we need to do is punch out the punch here hole and we're good to go until we get to a phone and call in for a registration number to write on the sheet on the line for the respective punched out hole.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,228 Senior Member
    BPsniper wrote: »
    Inability to utilize suppressors to take game animals. Ummmmm, why not?

    We can do that here as of this year...but there are still folks out there who believe that everyone should be restricted because of the few who would use it to poach deer....

    Actually, most of the guys that are inclined to take deer illegally couldn't afford a suppressor...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,228 Senior Member
    In Michigan it's illegal to hunt deer with a dog.....made it terribly difficult to take my girlfriend deer hunting....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • sakodudesakodude Senior Member Posts: 4,711 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    If there's point or antler/horn size restriction on the bucks/bulls, I can see why you need to keep and/or evidence of sex. Otherwise, it seems pretty silly to me.

    Exactly why I do not totally disagree with it. Where points are an issue it becomes a needed rule. In the case of antelope as I recall, the difference between a buck and doe was determined by horn length. Under a set length was considered doe and over buck. That was in 1983, may be different now. I guess my point was that without points in the picture and an ether sex tag, why the ranger bothered with the scolding and inspection of gut pile puzzles me. He was not wrong, I just don't think it was necessary.

    Sako
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Denver, COPosts: 4,995 Senior Member
    I still think it is stupid in CO that they want to greatly reduce the size of the elk herds, but they make it nearly impossible to do so. Back when you could draw a cow and buy a bull...they weren't concerned about the every increasing elk herd and decreasing deer herds.

    Also, I think it is down right **** that you can only shoot a mule or white tail buck, not both. Even though they are almost completely hunted in different areas, separated by hours of driving, and hunted at different peak times. Why have nearly what, 8 seasons(?) for deer, but you can normally shoot just one. They started making white tail only seasons, but why the heck not make that a different tag you could hold AS WELL as a mule deer tag?!?
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Eastern NebraskaPosts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Great thread, Jerry.

    I agree with havng attach the tag to the carcass in some states, whic his definitely asking for it to get lost in the woods and anotherwise honest hunter getting ticketed in the WMA parking area. Nebraksa has thankfully made the requirement that you immediately cancel the tag, but only that you have it on you while in posesion of the carcass. No need to affix it to the kill.

    One game law that I find absolutely insane is Texas' minimum spread requirement. How is it practical (or even ethical) to REQUIRE a hunter to meet a criteria that is impossible to verify for certain until AFTER the animal is killed??? That's madness, in my estimation and nothing more thn an easy way to boost fine revenue. To make it worse, my understading is that the closer the deer gets to being legal the higher the fine. Wow. I have no words for that one.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
  • Stick12Stick12 New Member Owatonna, MNPosts: 24 New Member
    In Minnesota its legal to have a scope on a muzzleloader during the regular firearms season but it is illegal to have a scope on it during muzzleloader season. Only iron sights can be used unless you have a special disability permit. This makes no sense to me
  • jbohiojbohio Senior Member In the sticks, OHPosts: 5,617 Senior Member
    Jerry, the state you're thinking of is Ohio. We have to sign, then immediately attach temporary tags before moving. Then, it used to be, that you had to leave the field dressed animal whole, and take it to a check station, where they permanently attached a metal tag. They've gone to e-checks or tag ins now (this year), so you don't have to haul your dead and stiffening deer across the county to the nearest check station. Quartering or breaking down a deer in the field is pretty much unheard of around here, you weren't allowed to do it. Maybe that'll change now. Lots of people hurt themselves every year dragging whole deer out of the woods. I know lots of people, myself included, that (used to) pass on shooting does that they would like to put in the freezer, simply because it used to be such a hassle to get one from where it falls, to the freezer.

    One law I find impractical is in Colorado. Where you can only purchase one elk or deer tag. What if a fellow likes to bowhunt and rifle hunt? He's out of luck. Bow hunting elk is a serious crapshoot, most OTC units have success rates under 10%, and they only edge up to 12-13% with over 10 days afield. It's pretty much like donating $554 to the state to go carry a bow around in the mountains. I know about the B and C licenses, but it's silly. It's not too far of a stretch to think that people from all over could bow hunt in August, then come back for rifle in Oct/Nov. It sure would put a lot of money in the states' pockets. If they were worried about over hunting, they could limit tag numbers by success ratio.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    Bigslug wrote: »
    California Condor Zone lead ammo ban. Pre and post enactment studies seem to indicate that bullets in gut piles are not their problem, yet we continue to complicate the lives of thousands of hunters - supposedly for the sake of a Pleistocene buzzard that's dying off mainly because it no longer has llarge mammoth and beached whale carcasses to eat.

    This is more of the Bunny Huggers trying to stop us from hunting and fishing. It reminds me of the stupid Whooping Cranes. The Aransas National Wildlife Refuge is the winter home of the Whooping Cranes. That's across San Antonio Bay to the west from Seadrift TX where I lived and went to school from age 7 until I was 13 and where my great grand parents lived and had an old hotel on the bay front. Anyway, not to get sidetracked but the Barrier Island that separates the mainland there and the Gulf of Mexico is Matagorda Island. It's about 45 miles long and runs from Port O'Connor almost to Rockport. The Hawes Family owned the north half of the Island until WWII and the Government took their land through Eminent Domain. However they told them it was only for war time use and when they were through with it they would sell it back to them at fair market value. Mind you back then a hand shake agreement was a persons word and they honored it. This is all they had was a handshake agreement, no written documents. Well their land was never given back and there was an airforce base on it until the late 70s. After this they gave the land to the state as a wildlife management area. However, when the feds took it over they told the Hawes family they would have permanent grazing rights for their cattle and they could continue to maintain the ranch house there. Well in the meantime as the Whooping Crane population sort of made a comeback (There were about 30 in the wild when I was in Elementary School, but in the 70s the population had tripled. Now I believe there may be as many as 200 (in the wild). And as their numbers expanded, a few would take up housekeeping on the Island, which was just across the Intercoastal Canal. This was no more than 4 or 5. But the Bunny Huggers started a campaign to remove all human activity off that part of the Island. So the Hawes were kicked off the land they had ranched on for over 100 years. They had been granted permanent grazing rights, but this was forgotten and they were kicked off completely. All because some idiot Bunny Huggers were worried that the stupid Whooping Cranes would be affected with a human presence. I remember, Joe Hawes was the family patriarch in the 70s thru the 90s and at one point he was going to Washington about once a month trying to get their land or at least part of it back. At that time there were exactly 50 Whooping Cranes left in the wild. He said they should kill em all, stuff em and give one to each state, LOL!!! I think it would have saved the American Tax Payers millions of dollars. Anyway, these people must be stopped before they are the ruination of us all.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    JerryBobCo wrote: »
    The sidetrack (thanks, Snake) in the camp meat thread gave me this idea. So, if you don't like it, blame him and the war monkey.

    Anyway, I thought it might be fun, and even educational, to have a thread like this. Perhaps some misconceptions can be cleared up, and it even might be kind of fun to see what we used to have to deal with, etc.

    I'll start with what I consider to a bad reg. Years ago, I remember reading this in Sports Afield, or a similar magazine. The article was about stupid game laws, or something like that. One of the stupid laws in some states was the requirement to tag your downed game immediately, regardless of where it was killed. The stupid part had to do with the possibility of losing your tag, while attached to your kill, while dragging or carrying it through thick cover or over rough terrain. I understand the purpose of the law, but it could have been implemented differently. In Colorado today, you have to 'validate' your tag by tearing of the carcass tag portion as soon as you recover your kill. However, you don't have to attach it to the animal until you get it to a place where it's reasonable to do so. An improvement, in my opinion.

    Which brings me to a slightly impractical reg. Also in Colorado, to validate your tag, you have to sign it. The tags are printed on a tough, glossy material that doesn't accept pen and ink well, so it's kind of difficult to sign it at best. Plus, you need to have a pen or pencil with you while hunting. I suppose that's no big deal, and I usually carry one, but it could be a hassle for some. I remember getting stopped by a game warden once while I was driving out with a deer I had shot. He checked me out, and noticed that I had failed to sign my tag. I had simply overlooked it. He was gracious about it, though, and allowed me to sign it there as I had done everything else right. He also told me that some wardens would not be so generous, and to make sure I signed me tag from then on.

    I also think some of the laws that prohibit the taking of spike bucks, require that a buck's antlers have a certain spread minimum, etc. can lead to problems. I have no doubt that all such regulations were well intended when instituted, but I wonder if the powers that be really thought it through.

    Next.

    I like that idea. Here in Texas now you don't have to have a pencil or pen. The dates are on the tag. Each month has a little triangular panel and each day has one. What you do is cut the month and the day it was killed out on the tag (most of us will have some form of knife on our person when hunting). But the stupid thing here is they still want you to tag the thing when it hits the ground. This is insane. If you cut the date out of the tag, then you have already dedicated that tag to that animal. This should be plenty.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 22,429 Senior Member
    We have one real no brainer here. In some counties a buck has to have an inside spread of 13 inches minimum. Here we go again. but the real no brainer is that back in the 70s (I believe it was the 70s) the TPWD conducted research on the Kerr Wildlife Management area that concluded that you can't manage deer by minimum spread because this doesn't remove inferior deer from the herd. Also, a good buck can be too narrow inside from beam to beam however it may have a tall rack and not a wide one. Then they turn around and pass such a law. I went on a TPWD hunt at Brazos Bend WMA about two years ago. The game warden told us in an orientation meeting that it was easy to tell if a deer was legal because his ears in the allert position wouldn't be as wide as the inside beam spread. Then this guy brings in a deer that first morning that was just barely legal at about 13 and 1/8th inches wide. The game warden made a comment to him at the check station that he just barely made it without a fine. The guy told the Game Warden that the deer with his ears at the allert position were well within the rack. The Game Warden then told him that he should have told him that there were some deer in the park that had small ears. If that game warden would have fined any of us we were prepared to remind him of what he initially said about the ears. And if you think a flounder in less than a foot of water is hard to judge its length, try judging a deer at even just 100 yards. They've gone too far.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • shootershooter Senior Member IllinoisPosts: 1,186 Senior Member
    Archery deer season in Illinois does not allow use of crossbows. There are two exceptions. One is physical disability with doctor's certification and about 3 or 4 years ago they added "persons age 62 and older". I turned 62 in 2008 and immediately went out and bought a crossbow. It had become very hard for me to get in much practice time with my compound bow as my upper body strength is just not what it once was. I'm not disabled, just an old fart who should try to get in better shape. The crossbow is a much more deadly and versatile tool in my hands than my compound ever was. Illinois finally did something right but my brother from Ohio told me 15 years ago that he could hunt deer with one and so could his son.

    This is from the IL-DNR
    "A crossbow device is illegal except for: a) Permanently disabled persons, as defined by law (520 ILCS 5/2.33), may apply to the IDNRʼs Office of Law Enforcement (217-782-6431) for an exemption to allow the use of a crossbow (a physicianʼs certification is required); or b) Persons age 62 and older may hunt with use of a crossbow without first obtaining a crossbow permit. A valid photo i.d. with proof of age must be carried by persons age 62 and older."
    There's no such thing as having too much ammo, unless you're on fire or trying to swim!
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Denver, COPosts: 4,995 Senior Member
    Stick12 wrote: »
    In Minnesota its legal to have a scope on a muzzleloader during the regular firearms season but it is illegal to have a scope on it during muzzleloader season. Only iron sights can be used unless you have a special disability permit. This makes no sense to me

    We have that one here as well. Their stance, is that it is a "primitive" weapons season, so no optics at all. Heck it wasn't that long ago inlines were illegal as well, as well as fiber optic or painted sights. Still can't use sabots here either. Nor pellets. Loose powder, balls or conicals, open sights, no breech loading BP. 209's are legal, though.
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,253 Senior Member
    snake284 wrote: »
    I like that idea. Here in Texas now you don't have to have a pencil or pen. The dates are on the tag. Each month has a little triangular panel and each day has one. What you do is cut the month and the day it was killed out on the tag (most of us will have some form of knife on our person when hunting).

    Might want to check those regs again. You still have to write the name of the ranch and the county on the tag, AND log the deer on the back of the main license. I know hunters who have gotten a ticket for not logging the deer on the license.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • FisheadgibFisheadgib Senior Member crusted in sandPosts: 5,797 Senior Member
    Deer hunting is very big business in Alabama and I feel many of the game laws are based more on generating revenue for the state rather than game management. In Florida, it's perfectly legal to hunt over a feeder or bait yet in Alabama, you can't even hunt hogs over bait. If Alabama really wanted to control the explosion of the hog population, they would allow at least hunting hogs over bait after the deer season. Even though "corning" is illegal in Alabama, almost every store around the south central part of the state sells 50# bags of corn during the deer season. Even all the roadside convenience stores. If you go to the Wal-mart in Andalusia during the deer season, you'll find at least three pallets of deer corn in the isles and an entire isle devoted to different feeds and attractants. Probably at least twice as much as any Wal-mart in Florida where hunting over bait is legal. I know a few people that were caught hunting over corn in the past and it's a 418.00 fine, pay the clerk, have a nice day. No records are kept. If you get caught again a month later, 418.00, pay the clerk, have a nice day. If you aren't wearing your 144sq in of orange, add 100.00 onto your fine. For several years now there have been rumors about allowing hunting over bait in Alabama but the state makes too much money by not allowing it.
    snake284 wrote: »
    For my point of view, cpj is a lot like me
    .
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,228 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Alabama has one law in particular that myself, and EVERY game warden I've talked to about it, ALL feel is plain STUPID.

    We're having trouble controlling the spread of feral hogs and the amount of damage/financial loss is growing rapidly by the year.

    Alabama's stupid law?
    That feral hogs are considered "game animals" until killed, then they're considered just like a hog you raised and slaughtered yourself.

    So, no baiting, no night hunting, NOTHING that would increase the minimal effectiveness of hunters on the overall population.
    Yet the state will, with a phone call, write the landowner a predation permit that allows all that, AND MORE.

    The game wardens I've talked to, and myself have a plan we like better, and they have told me the state biologists like it too, but the state won't approve it.

    We're of the opinion that if the state TRULY wants to control the feral hogs, after the end of Spring turkey season, until say October first (~2 weeks before bow season for deer opens) remove ALL restrictions from feral hogs (except for requiring landowner permission)

    The only reason for the dates, are to prevent folks from using the "I'm hog hunting" defense when caught spotlighting, baiting etc deer

    I agree Paul....pretty darn silly...

    While we don't have a fraction of the hog problem you guys have, there are some down on the KS/OK border that are causing problems. In KS the admittedly problem feral hogs are managed by the Department of Agriculture so to shoot one you need to get a permit from the Ag folks - up until last year, you could not even shoot one on your own property without one of those silly permits. The "rationale" behind all this is that the fish and game folks don't want hog hunting to become a sport. In my opinion they should be treated like coyotes which can be pretty much taken anywhere/anytime...
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Podunk, Tx.Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Stick12 wrote: »
    In Minnesota its legal to have a scope on a muzzleloader during the regular firearms season but it is illegal to have a scope on it during muzzleloader season. Only iron sights can be used unless you have a special disability permit. This makes no sense to me

    As has already been mentioned, Colorado has a similar regulation. And, I like it.

    If you want to hunt for 2 weeks during the early fall during the peak of the elk rut, you have to use archery equipment or a muzzle loader. Instead of calling it muzzle loader season, though, I wish it were primitive weapon season and restricted to traditional front stuffers with either flintlock ignition or percussion cap, and iron sights only.

    If you want to use a modern black powder rifle with scopes, breach loading, etc., use it during the centerfire rifle season.

    That's just my opinion, of course, and it appears that the CDOW has tried to make a compromise to suit everyone. Of course, this pleases no one, so it must be a pretty good compromise. :)
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • CaliFFLCaliFFL Senior Member Kaniksu Nat'l Forest, IDPosts: 5,486 Senior Member
    In Idaho:

    To purchase a second deer tag, we must pay the nonresident fee of $301.75!

    Snaring of snoeshow hares is prohibited, but we can snare gray wolves.

    Idaho does not require black bear carcasses to be removed from the field. Only skins, skulls, and proof of sex.
    When our governing officials dismiss due process as mere semantics, when they exercise powers they don’t have and ignore duties they actually bear, and when we let them get away with it, we have ceased to be our own rulers.

    Adam J. McCleod


  • TeachTeach Senior Member Dellrose TNPosts: 18,428 Senior Member
    In most places, the traditional muzzleloader hunters lost the "primitive weapons" battle several years ago when game departments saw the opportunity to sell a bunch more "muzzleloader" hunting licenses by letting cheaters use their inlines with all the modern gimmicks. I have no problem with all those things in the regular centerfire season, but all the effort the traditionalists went to in getting a special season enacted was pretty much for nothing now that the inliners have taken advantage of an extended season. Money talks!
    Jerry
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Denver, COPosts: 4,995 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    In most places, the traditional muzzleloader hunters lost the "primitive weapons" battle several years ago when game departments saw the opportunity to sell a bunch more "muzzleloader" hunting licenses by letting cheaters use their inlines with all the modern gimmicks. I have no problem with all those things in the regular centerfire season, but all the effort the traditionalists went to in getting a special season enacted was pretty much for nothing now that the inliners have taken advantage of an extended season. Money talks!
    Jerry

    Here in CO Jerry, regardless of the rules, we have NO lack of hunters buying tags! A lot of people were very angry CO was so "behind the times" allowing inlines, let alone shotgun primers.

    Personally....I'm torn on the subject. I mean, CDOW keeps moaning and groaning about the number of elk, and our relatively low success rate compared to the number of elk...yet, they always do stupid things to keep MORE people from coming here and REDUCING the number of elk!

    What I'd like to see, is a "primitive" season, for more traditional front stuffers and archery...BUT, add another "non centerfire rifle" season for maybe the last week of the normal elk rut, and open it to modern ML's and centerfire handguns. I think that would be a very popular season. I think modern ML's and centerfire handguns would match up nicely, both are likely good up to the 150-MAYBE 200 yard mark, but mostly 100-150 yard, which is a bit more then traditional ML and archery. But, still not in the same class as normal rifles. Allow pellet powder, sabots, scopes...whatever.
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Denver, COPosts: 4,995 Senior Member
    knitepoet wrote: »
    Just curious, do you argue as strongly that to hunt during "bow season" the archer must use a long bow or recurve without sights?

    I remember the same arguments back in the 70's when compound bows, sights, releases and aluminum arrow were just becoming popular. There was "outrage" on the part of the traditionalist then as well.

    You know I was just thinking about all of that when I was posting, I posted, and there was your post!

    I find it a bit stupid that archers can use the absolute greatest latest technology without nearly ANY restrictions...but a muzzle loader can't have a sabot, it can't use pelletized powder, and it can't use any optics. But archers have unlimited amount of the latest-greatest at their disposal.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Dellrose TNPosts: 18,428 Senior Member
    Yes, I would support a "primitive" archery season. The difference probably isn't as great between compound and recurve or longbow capability as compared to inlines and sidehammers, but crossbows seem to take a lot of the effort out of archery for able-bodied hunters. The difference isn't so much about arrow speed, but the extreme letoff in draw effort of a compound, and the ability to keep a crossbow cocked indefinitely seems to be putting the primitive archer at a similar disadvantage.
    Jerry
  • MileHighShooterMileHighShooter Senior Member Denver, COPosts: 4,995 Senior Member
    I've looked into crossbow hunting and really there are only a couple of states allowing it during archery season. Most of them allow it for the handicapped, which is awesome. Wyoming and I think Alabama...maybe Missouri too, allow them during regular archery. This is why I want a crossbow lol.
  • Six-GunSix-Gun Senior Member Eastern NebraskaPosts: 8,155 Senior Member
    Add Nebraska to that list as of this past season. Crossbows can be used by anyone during regular archery season. Inline muzzleloaders featuring variable power scopes, with whatever powder and bullet configuration you wish, are also legal and have been for some time (a fact I didn't know about when I took out my inline, still armed with the previously required 1x scope, to kill a doe a couple of seasons back). In Nebraska, these laws make sense, though: they want deer numbers down in a bad way and have inched toward looser restrictions on weapons to achieve that goal steadily over the past decade. It's a matter of legitimate game management in this case.
    Accuracy: because white space between bullet holes drives me insane.
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