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Proof Marks Old Shotgun

CGSMakaveli1986CGSMakaveli1986 Posts: 3 New Member
edited October 2020 in General Firearms #1
looking for some help on this shotgun my father-in-law recovered from his parents garage.

Replies

  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,142 Senior Member
    edited October 2020 #2
    This thread is in the wrong place...should be in General Firearms, where it will get more views. I think the Eagle over N is a German proof for smokeless powder (Nitro).  The 16 is apparently the gauge...possibly the 65 mm is the same, although I can't seem to look it up.  Can't make out the rest of the marks.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • CGSMakaveli1986CGSMakaveli1986 Posts: 3 New Member
    can anyone provide more information on this gun? I think it is German, N for Nitro and M for multi Barrell? Cant find anyone on the rest of the marks. 

  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 8,142 Senior Member
    I think the first one means its a 16 gauge or .65 millimeters.
  • Big Al1Big Al1 Senior Member Posts: 8,142 Senior Member
    edited October 2020 #6
    I was guessing!!  :)
    Millimeters is foreign to me!
  • ilove22silove22s Senior Member Posts: 1,454 Senior Member
    welcome,

    try googling for "German proof" marks.  

    Note, alot of European countries have their own way of doing things and not every country is the same.

    unless you have a book like the "blue book" you will have to find the various proof marks online.

    good luck.
    The ears never lie.

    - Don Burt
  • CGSMakaveli1986CGSMakaveli1986 Posts: 3 New Member
    i spent an hour looking at different proof marks online and couldn't line them up. Some looked similar but not identical. My father-in-law thinks his dad brought it back from the war. No inscriptions on the stock. ill keep looking. 
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,417 Senior Member
    It's a good looking shotgun, that's for sure.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • waipapa13waipapa13 Senior Member Posts: 868 Senior Member
    edited October 2020 #10
    65mm is the chamber length (2 1/2 inch), 16 the gauge, N is the nitro proof.
    I'm trying to look up the proofs, my suspicion is that this is Suhl made gun.

    edit. I was wrong, appears to be proofed at Ulm.
  • waipapa13waipapa13 Senior Member Posts: 868 Senior Member
    The "M" letter and crest seem to indicate to me that the shotgun in question was tested at the Ulm proofhouse in Germany, the "N" and crest indicate its nitro proofing, i.e suitability for smokeless powder.
  • waipapa13waipapa13 Senior Member Posts: 868 Senior Member
    Pretty sure the monogram "S" u "S" indicates Sauer und Sohn, or Sauer and Son, which is why I initially said Suhl.
    I believe it to have been proofed at Ulm for some strange reason, but manufactured at Suhl by Sauer.
  • FreezerFreezer Senior Member Posts: 1,936 Senior Member
    edited October 2020 #13
    waipapa13 said:
    Pretty sure the monogram "S" u "S" indicates Sauer und Sohn, or Sauer and Son, which is why I initially said Suhl.
    I believe it to have been proofed at Ulm for some strange reason, but manufactured at Suhl by Sauer.
    You hit the nail on the head! It's the oldest firearms manufacturer in Germany and is now Sig Sauer. Wikipedia has some good info on the company. 
    I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter :wink:
  • tennmiketennmike Senior Member Posts: 27,457 Senior Member
    edited October 2020 #14
    knitepoet said:
    Not often I disagree with BigAl on old firearm questions,  while I agree with the 16 being the gauge, I am pretty sure the 65m/m is the chamber length,  which is 2.5"
    Yep. 2.5 inches x 25.4 = 63.5 mm. 25.4mm per inch. Or you could do the 65mm divided by 25.4mm/inch and get 2.55". I can do the linear and diameter measurements conversions, but the thread dia. and pitch measurements in metric make me say bad words. 
      I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer”
    ― Douglas Adams
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    It also seems to be made of 1144 carbon "stress proof"  steel.
    I still don't know what the Badge is. I'm looking.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    edited October 2020 #16
    i spent an hour looking at different proof marks online and couldn't line them up. Some looked similar but not identical. My father-in-law thinks his dad brought it back from the war.
     ..


     If this was brought back from the war then 1144 could be the date stamp (November 1944). My only issue with that is the stamp/badge above it wasn't used until 1950, according to what I can find online. Also, the serial number seems a bit high to be pre-WWII.

    I'm still looking. 🔎

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

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