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Who has been on this Forum and its past derivatives the longest?

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  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 751 Senior Member
    Gene L said:
    knitepoet said:
    Gene L said:
    Still true!  Do the math, but don't figure on M (minute) since it only takes a fraction of a second to go 100 yards.  It's a distance problem, not a per-minute thing. I can't believe some argued against this simple mathematical fact.  :)


    Sure thing Gene, you're right and the rest of us were ALL wrong

    I'm right.  It's simple, really.  Here's the formula.


    Only problem is that the bullet will lose its rotational speed the further it gets from the muzzle.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,140 Senior Member
    But not at 100 yards.
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 21,819 Senior Member
    edited November 2020 #124
    Only problem is that the bullet will lose its rotational speed the further it gets from the muzzle.

    Actually, it loses forward speed due to drag a LOT faster than it will lose rotational speed. There is very little rotational drag, compared to the amount of drag, moving forward through the air
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,624 Senior Member
    edited November 2020 #125
    I started here in the very late 90s or early 2000s.  I think I was pre Marshal, but not by much... it's been a long, weird ride.  


    Are we there yet?  I have to pee...
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • HappySquidHappySquid Member Posts: 408 Member
    I can Pee further ;)

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,662 Senior Member
    That was good!
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,302 Senior Member
    People reveal themselves for what they are or not...It is just a matter of time before they hang themselves, if they are posers.
    I was used to being doubted or flat out disbelieved.  That time was just more than I had ever experienced before.
    In our defense, we average 20-1 posers amongst newbs
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,662 Senior Member
    That is a sad truth.
    Those folks definitely don't have much of a life.
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    edited November 2020 #131
    knitepoet said:
    Only problem is that the bullet will lose its rotational speed the further it gets from the muzzle.

    Actually, it loses forward speed due to drag a LOT faster than it will lose rotational speed. There is very little rotational drag, compared to the amount of drag, moving forward through the air

    Fwiw, here's my take on the subject.

    1:12 means 1 rotation per every 12 inches (1 rot/1 ft). 3000 feet per second is just that 3000 f/s. Multiply the two together and we get 3000 rot/second, the feet cancel each other out leaving only rotations per second. Converting to rotations per minute is just multiplying by 60 or 3000x60=180,000 rpm. Frankly, I would just leave it as rotations per second (rps), it's more useful.
    Next, if a bullet was launched at 3000 fps in a 1:12 twist barrel at a target 300 feet away (100 yards), in a vacuum, we might expect it to at least rotate 300 times since the expected velocities would be 3000 fps at the muzzle And 3000 fps at the target for an average speed of 3000 fps. Time of flight, 0.1 seconds. Therefore, 3000 rotations per second times 1/10th of a second gives 300 rotations. This will remain true so long as we're in a vacuum.
    Out at the range, we should expect something different. Using .223 ammo as reference.
    The Midway link is just there so folks wondering where I'm getting these numbers from, can go and verify them for themselves.
    Assuming the 50 grain .223 ammo above at 3000 fps (listed at 3250 fps, I'm using 3000 for simplicity), it's BC listed at 0.248, I went to the JBM calculator and entered the relevant numbers.
    Muzzle velocity (3000 fps). BC (0.248). Standard temperature and pressure. I got this
    Velocity at the muzzle = 3000 fps.
    Velocity at 100 yards (2618.4 fps)
    Time of Flight 0.107 seconds.
    Therefore, 3000 rps x 0.107s = 321 rotations at 100 yards.
    This comes from the fact that our average velocity over this distance is not constant as was the case in a vacuum. Instead we have [(3000+2618.4)/2]=2809.2 fps. So our time of flight over those 100 yards (300 feet) is given by 300/2809.2 = 0.10679 or rounded up to 0.107 seconds as per the JBM website. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, it's no longer coupled to the 1:12 ratio. It can actually seem to "speed up"! As knite pointed out forward speed drops much faster than rotational speed so I would expect between 300 to 321 rotations from our example round at 100 yards.

    Take it any way you want, jmho. 😉

    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    edited November 2020 #132
    People reveal themselves for what they are or not...It is just a matter of time before they hang themselves, if they are posers.
    I was used to being doubted or flat out disbelieved.  That time was just more than I had ever experienced before.

    I still have my eye on you. You're either an NSA plant seeking to ferret out radical extremists from the forum...

    Or you're just a good old boy that likes to shoot specialty pistols at long range and post that info on his website.
    I still haven't made up my mind yet, give me another 10 years or so. 🕵️
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    ...
    I still remember my wife looking at me like I had lost my everloving mind when I told her we were going to get on a plane to go meet some guy I met on the Internet... 🤣

    Are you sure this forum isn't based out of California? Sure seems to be getting progressive around here. Still debating whether or not to deduct 2 stars from yer Man Card! 🤣🤣🤣
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 751 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    knitepoet said:
    Only problem is that the bullet will lose its rotational speed the further it gets from the muzzle.

    Actually, it loses forward speed due to drag a LOT faster than it will lose rotational speed. There is very little rotational drag, compared to the amount of drag, moving forward through the air

    Fwiw, here's my take on the subject.

    1:12 means 1 rotation per every 12 inches (1 rot/1 ft). 3000 feet per second is just that 3000 f/s. Multiply the two together and we get 3000 rot/second, the feet cancel each other out leaving only rotations per second. Converting to rotations per minute is just multiplying by 60 or 3000x60=180,000 rpm. Frankly, I would just leave it as rotations per second (rps), it's more useful.
    Next, if a bullet was launched at 3000 fps in a 1:12 twist barrel at a target 300 feet away (100 yards), in a vacuum, we might expect it to at least rotate 300 times since the expected velocities would be 3000 fps at the muzzle And 3000 fps at the target for an average speed of 3000 fps. Time of flight, 0.1 seconds. Therefore, 3000 rotations per second times 1/10th of a second gives 300 rotations. This will remain true so long as we're in a vacuum.
    Out at the range, we should expect something different. Using .223 ammo as reference.
    The Midway link is just there so folks wondering where I'm getting these numbers from, can go and verify them for themselves.
    Assuming the 50 grain .223 ammo above at 3000 fps (listed at 3250 fps, I'm using 3000 for simplicity), it's BC listed at 0.248, I went to the JBM calculator and entered the relevant numbers.
    Muzzle velocity (3000 fps). BC (0.248). Standard temperature and pressure. I got this
    Velocity at the muzzle = 3000 fps.
    Velocity at 100 yards (2618.4 fps)
    Time of Flight 0.107 seconds.
    Therefore, 3000 rps x 0.107s = 321 rotations at 100 yards.
    This comes from the fact that our average velocity over this distance is not constant as was the case in a vacuum. Instead we have [(3000+2618.4)/2]=2809.2 fps. So our time of flight over those 100 yards (300 feet) is given by 300/2809.2 = 0.10679 or rounded up to 0.107 seconds as per the JBM website. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, it's no longer coupled to the 1:12 ratio. It can actually seem to "speed up"! As knite pointed out forward speed drops much faster than rotational speed so I would expect between 300 to 321 rotations from our example round at 100 yards.

    Take it any way you want, jmho. 😉

    I'll take your word for it. Im no mathmagician 😆
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,317 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    GunNut said:
    ...
    I still remember my wife looking at me like I had lost my everloving mind when I told her we were going to get on a plane to go meet some guy I met on the Internet... 🤣

    Are you sure this forum isn't based out of California? Sure seems to be getting progressive around here. Still debating whether or not to deduct 2 stars from yer Man Card! 🤣🤣🤣
    Not when we met this guy and over the next few days we shot bucketfuls of ammo, full auto toys, almost set a whole lot or real estate on fire with a flasbang and then went home much better trained and bought new 3 handguns during a quick stop between the airport and home... 
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    edited November 2020 #136
    GunNut said:
    Spk said:
    GunNut said:
    ...
    I still remember my wife looking at me like I had lost my everloving mind when I told her we were going to get on a plane to go meet some guy I met on the Internet... 🤣

    Are you sure this forum isn't based out of California? Sure seems to be getting progressive around here. Still debating whether or not to deduct 2 stars from yer Man Card! 🤣🤣🤣
    Not when we met this guy and over the next few days we shot bucketfuls of ammo, full auto toys, almost set a whole lot or real estate on fire with a flasbang and then went home much better trained and bought new 3 handguns during a quick stop between the airport and home... 

    Ok, you get a star and a half back but running out to meet strange men so you can pop off some loads together just sounds fishy to me 😂

    Actually, sounds like you had a great time. 👍
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,317 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    GunNut said:
    Spk said:
    GunNut said:
    ...
    I still remember my wife looking at me like I had lost my everloving mind when I told her we were going to get on a plane to go meet some guy I met on the Internet... 🤣

    Are you sure this forum isn't based out of California? Sure seems to be getting progressive around here. Still debating whether or not to deduct 2 stars from yer Man Card! 🤣🤣🤣
    Not when we met this guy and over the next few days we shot bucketfuls of ammo, full auto toys, almost set a whole lot or real estate on fire with a flasbang and then went home much better trained and bought new 3 handguns during a quick stop between the airport and home... 

    Ok, you get a star and a half back but running out to meet strange men so you can pop off some loads together just sounds fishy to me 😂

    Actually, sounds like you had a great time. 👍
    Best, and wife hasn’t questioned my insane ideas since 🤣
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    knitepoet said:
    Only problem is that the bullet will lose its rotational speed the further it gets from the muzzle.

    Actually, it loses forward speed due to drag a LOT faster than it will lose rotational speed. There is very little rotational drag, compared to the amount of drag, moving forward through the air

    Fwiw, here's my take on the subject.

    1:12 means 1 rotation per every 12 inches (1 rot/1 ft). 3000 feet per second is just that 3000 f/s. Multiply the two together and we get 3000 rot/second, the feet cancel each other out leaving only rotations per second. Converting to rotations per minute is just multiplying by 60 or 3000x60=180,000 rpm. Frankly, I would just leave it as rotations per second (rps), it's more useful.
    Next, if a bullet was launched at 3000 fps in a 1:12 twist barrel at a target 300 feet away (100 yards), in a vacuum, we might expect it to at least rotate 300 times since the expected velocities would be 3000 fps at the muzzle And 3000 fps at the target for an average speed of 3000 fps. Time of flight, 0.1 seconds. Therefore, 3000 rotations per second times 1/10th of a second gives 300 rotations. This will remain true so long as we're in a vacuum.
    Out at the range, we should expect something different. Using .223 ammo as reference.
    The Midway link is just there so folks wondering where I'm getting these numbers from, can go and verify them for themselves.
    Assuming the 50 grain .223 ammo above at 3000 fps (listed at 3250 fps, I'm using 3000 for simplicity), it's BC listed at 0.248, I went to the JBM calculator and entered the relevant numbers.
    Muzzle velocity (3000 fps). BC (0.248). Standard temperature and pressure. I got this
    Velocity at the muzzle = 3000 fps.
    Velocity at 100 yards (2618.4 fps)
    Time of Flight 0.107 seconds.
    Therefore, 3000 rps x 0.107s = 321 rotations at 100 yards.
    This comes from the fact that our average velocity over this distance is not constant as was the case in a vacuum. Instead we have [(3000+2618.4)/2]=2809.2 fps. So our time of flight over those 100 yards (300 feet) is given by 300/2809.2 = 0.10679 or rounded up to 0.107 seconds as per the JBM website. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, it's no longer coupled to the 1:12 ratio. It can actually seem to "speed up"! As knite pointed out forward speed drops much faster than rotational speed so I would expect between 300 to 321 rotations from our example round at 100 yards.

    Take it any way you want, jmho. 😉

    Can you convert that to units a little more reasonable.  Furlongs per fortnight would be good.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,317 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    knitepoet said:
    Only problem is that the bullet will lose its rotational speed the further it gets from the muzzle.

    Actually, it loses forward speed due to drag a LOT faster than it will lose rotational speed. There is very little rotational drag, compared to the amount of drag, moving forward through the air

    Fwiw, here's my take on the subject.

    1:12 means 1 rotation per every 12 inches (1 rot/1 ft). 3000 feet per second is just that 3000 f/s. Multiply the two together and we get 3000 rot/second, the feet cancel each other out leaving only rotations per second. Converting to rotations per minute is just multiplying by 60 or 3000x60=180,000 rpm. Frankly, I would just leave it as rotations per second (rps), it's more useful.
    Next, if a bullet was launched at 3000 fps in a 1:12 twist barrel at a target 300 feet away (100 yards), in a vacuum, we might expect it to at least rotate 300 times since the expected velocities would be 3000 fps at the muzzle And 3000 fps at the target for an average speed of 3000 fps. Time of flight, 0.1 seconds. Therefore, 3000 rotations per second times 1/10th of a second gives 300 rotations. This will remain true so long as we're in a vacuum.
    Out at the range, we should expect something different. Using .223 ammo as reference.
    The Midway link is just there so folks wondering where I'm getting these numbers from, can go and verify them for themselves.
    Assuming the 50 grain .223 ammo above at 3000 fps (listed at 3250 fps, I'm using 3000 for simplicity), it's BC listed at 0.248, I went to the JBM calculator and entered the relevant numbers.
    Muzzle velocity (3000 fps). BC (0.248). Standard temperature and pressure. I got this
    Velocity at the muzzle = 3000 fps.
    Velocity at 100 yards (2618.4 fps)
    Time of Flight 0.107 seconds.
    Therefore, 3000 rps x 0.107s = 321 rotations at 100 yards.
    This comes from the fact that our average velocity over this distance is not constant as was the case in a vacuum. Instead we have [(3000+2618.4)/2]=2809.2 fps. So our time of flight over those 100 yards (300 feet) is given by 300/2809.2 = 0.10679 or rounded up to 0.107 seconds as per the JBM website. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, it's no longer coupled to the 1:12 ratio. It can actually seem to "speed up"! As knite pointed out forward speed drops much faster than rotational speed so I would expect between 300 to 321 rotations from our example round at 100 yards.

    Take it any way you want, jmho. 😉

    Can you convert that to units a little more reasonable.  Furlongs per fortnight would be good.
    And I’m a sailor so I need velocity in knots... 😁
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,662 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    People reveal themselves for what they are or not...It is just a matter of time before they hang themselves, if they are posers.
    I was used to being doubted or flat out disbelieved.  That time was just more than I had ever experienced before.

    I still have my eye on you. You're either an NSA plant seeking to ferret out radical extremists from the forum...

    Or you're just a good old boy that likes to shoot specialty pistols at long range and post that info on his website.
    I still haven't made up my mind yet, give me another 10 years or so. 🕵️

    Just come to Gillette, and I will let you shoot those specialty pistols yourself or you can come to WY-SHOT, and you can see guys and gals from all over the country doing it, and you will even have more SP's to play with B)
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,662 Senior Member

    My 7mm Dakota past a mile. 

    Same 7 Dak at 2K+  


    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Ernie,

    I knew you lived in Wyoming, but no idea you were in Gillette.  Mile High Shooter and I rented a camping trailer from a guy in Gillette when we made our deer hunt in SE Montana a few years ago.  We went from there up through Devil's Tower and on into Montana.  We saw lots and lots of open prairie.  I kind of like that country.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,303 Senior Member
    GunNut said:
    Spk said:
    knitepoet said:
    Only problem is that the bullet will lose its rotational speed the further it gets from the muzzle.

    Actually, it loses forward speed due to drag a LOT faster than it will lose rotational speed. There is very little rotational drag, compared to the amount of drag, moving forward through the air

    Fwiw, here's my take on the subject.

    1:12 means 1 rotation per every 12 inches (1 rot/1 ft). 3000 feet per second is just that 3000 f/s. Multiply the two together and we get 3000 rot/second, the feet cancel each other out leaving only rotations per second. Converting to rotations per minute is just multiplying by 60 or 3000x60=180,000 rpm. Frankly, I would just leave it as rotations per second (rps), it's more useful.
    Next, if a bullet was launched at 3000 fps in a 1:12 twist barrel at a target 300 feet away (100 yards), in a vacuum, we might expect it to at least rotate 300 times since the expected velocities would be 3000 fps at the muzzle And 3000 fps at the target for an average speed of 3000 fps. Time of flight, 0.1 seconds. Therefore, 3000 rotations per second times 1/10th of a second gives 300 rotations. This will remain true so long as we're in a vacuum.
    Out at the range, we should expect something different. Using .223 ammo as reference.
    The Midway link is just there so folks wondering where I'm getting these numbers from, can go and verify them for themselves.
    Assuming the 50 grain .223 ammo above at 3000 fps (listed at 3250 fps, I'm using 3000 for simplicity), it's BC listed at 0.248, I went to the JBM calculator and entered the relevant numbers.
    Muzzle velocity (3000 fps). BC (0.248). Standard temperature and pressure. I got this
    Velocity at the muzzle = 3000 fps.
    Velocity at 100 yards (2618.4 fps)
    Time of Flight 0.107 seconds.
    Therefore, 3000 rps x 0.107s = 321 rotations at 100 yards.
    This comes from the fact that our average velocity over this distance is not constant as was the case in a vacuum. Instead we have [(3000+2618.4)/2]=2809.2 fps. So our time of flight over those 100 yards (300 feet) is given by 300/2809.2 = 0.10679 or rounded up to 0.107 seconds as per the JBM website. Once the bullet leaves the barrel, it's no longer coupled to the 1:12 ratio. It can actually seem to "speed up"! As knite pointed out forward speed drops much faster than rotational speed so I would expect between 300 to 321 rotations from our example round at 100 yards.

    Take it any way you want, jmho. 😉

    Can you convert that to units a little more reasonable.  Furlongs per fortnight would be good.
    And I’m a sailor so I need velocity in knots... 😁
    Temperature should always be expressed in degrees Delisle, although Rankine is an acceptable alternate...


    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,662 Senior Member
    Ernie,

    I knew you lived in Wyoming, but no idea you were in Gillette.  Mile High Shooter and I rented a camping trailer from a guy in Gillette when we made our deer hunt in SE Montana a few years ago.  We went from there up through Devil's Tower and on into Montana.  We saw lots and lots of open prairie.  I kind of like that country.
    Next time you guys are coming up this way, give me a shoutcome and we can get together.  
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • jaywaptijaywapti Senior Member Posts: 4,981 Senior Member
    GunNut said:

    And I’m a sailor so I need velocity in knots... 😁
    Me to ,please post distances in fathoms.

    JAY
    THE DEFINITION OF GUN CONTROL IS HITTING THE TARGET WITH YOUR FIRST SHOT
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    jaywapti said:
    GunNut said:

    And I’m a sailor so I need velocity in knots... 😁
    Me to ,please post distances in fathoms.

    JAY

    Let's see 3000 f/s comes to approximately 1777.4514 kn.

    100 yards (300 feet) comes to 50 fathoms.

    And furlongs per fortnight relates to feet per second so 3000 f/s coverts by dividing 3000/660 or 4.545454... furlongs per second but we want furlong per fortnight so converting some more we get 5498181.818182 furlongs per fortnight.

    I hope this clears up any confusion.

    Btw, 59°F converts to  127.5 °De.

    You guys like doing things the hard way. Very strange crowd. 🤔
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    jaywapti said:
    GunNut said:

    And I’m a sailor so I need velocity in knots... 😁
    Me to ,please post distances in fathoms.

    JAY

    Let's see 3000 f/s comes to approximately 1777.4514 kn.

    100 yards (300 feet) comes to 50 fathoms.

    And furlongs per fortnight relates to feet per second so 3000 f/s coverts by dividing 3000/660 or 4.545454... furlongs per second but we want furlong per fortnight so converting some more we get 5498181.818182 furlongs per fortnight.

    I hope this clears up any confusion.

    Btw, 59°F converts to  127.5 °De.

    You guys like doing things the hard way. Very strange crowd. 🤔
    Are you just now noticing we're a strange crowd?
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    edited November 2020 #148
    Spk said:
    jaywapti said:
    GunNut said:

    And I’m a sailor so I need velocity in knots... 😁
    Me to ,please post distances in fathoms.

    JAY

    Let's see 3000 f/s comes to approximately 1777.4514 kn.

    100 yards (300 feet) comes to 50 fathoms.

    And furlongs per fortnight relates to feet per second so 3000 f/s coverts by dividing 3000/660 or 4.545454... furlongs per second but we want furlong per fortnight so converting some more we get 5498181.818182 furlongs per fortnight.

    I hope this clears up any confusion.

    Btw, 59°F converts to  127.5 °De.

    You guys like doing things the hard way. Very strange crowd. 🤔
    Are you just now noticing we're a strange crowd?

    You have to be patient, I'ma little slo.


    ... Yeah definitely, definitely a little slo.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,410 Senior Member
    Rotation in parsecs, please. To make it easy on you....in a vacuum.

    (That oughtta hold him a while).  >:)

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Rotation in parsecs, please. To make it easy on you....in a vacuum.

    (That oughtta hold him a while).  >:)

    Mike
    Can we throw in millibleems?  Seems only fair.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,302 Senior Member
    I'm a Redneck so I need measurements in **** hairs.......










    That's FROG hairs you degenerates!
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
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