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.223 Remington @ 800 yrds. Just for fun.

ZeeZee Senior MemberPosts: 24,772 Senior Member
edited December 2020 in General Firearms #1
A good friend and former spotter (retired) came to visit and, after a successful hunt yesterday evening, decided to do some fun shooting today. 
Forgoing the easy Guns, I decided to pull out a little one and see what we could do. 
Custom .223 Remington my Mentor built for me years ago with a Remington action, Shilen Select Match Grade .223 Rem barrel with 7” Twist, Shilen Trigger, & Leupold VXIII 6.5-20x Scope. 
Sighted in for ammo I have a bunch of. 
77gr Mk262 Mod1

Good ammo for the military. Not the greatest for long range. But, makes good brass. 😎
Zeroed at 100
Fired 2 rounds in the bullseye @ 300 to confirm StrelokPro was on and it was. 
Then, we shot from 
600
700
800 yards

The first two were no problem. Other than a little wind, StrelokPro was spot on. At 800 yards, the vertical wheels came off. Likely having to do with the round passing through the transonic stage and getting..........cantankerous. Whatever the reason, impacts weren’t matching holds and there wasn’t an explanation other than........either we suck (possible) or the bullet went full ****. Either way.......fun times with a damn good dude. 


May not be perfect, but don’t blow raspberries at us and expect to depart unscathed. 😎
"To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
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Replies

  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Posts: 6,667 Senior Member
    Great work!!!
    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,313 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #3
    I've killed quite a few pdogs at 700 +a little change with both my .223 Rems, but the 800 yard dog (and a possibe 900) was with the 6mm Rem. 

    A good .223 rifle, good glass, and good ammo can be surprisingly effective at 700 against small targets, but my experience matches yours exactly.  Much past 700, undefined gremlins appear by the score.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,094 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #4
    Damn fine shootin'. Its not like I'd do anywhere like as good!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,308 Senior Member
    Farthest I ever shot was 500 yards while shooting with the Marines, while I was in the Army  With a M-16A2   I thought I was pretty good just to qualify expert again.  Rounds hitting that close together at half again as far is impressive indeed.  
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,313 Senior Member
    Zee,

    Upon closer study, all of your 600 yard shots would have killed a pdog. At 700, 4 of 5 would have done the trick, except the windage was a bit off, but that's why the wind is the devil in the details. Beyond that...sometimes they walk into the path of a called "miss".  It happens. :)

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    Zee,

    Upon closer study, all of your 600 yard shots would have killed a pdog. At 700, 4 of 5 would have done the trick, except the windage was a bit off, but that's why the wind is the devil in the details. Beyond that...sometimes they walk into the path of a called "miss".  It happens. :)

    Mike
    That’s actually a high compliment from you. I appreciate that. 🤟🏻
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    I gotta give props to StrelokPro.  It was spot on at 3,6,700 yards. I can’t blame it for the 800 variance. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Farthest I ever shot was 500 yards while shooting with the Marines, while I was in the Army  With a M-16A2   I thought I was pretty good just to qualify expert again.  Rounds hitting that close together at half again as far is impressive indeed.  
    Wind is the enemy. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Damn fine shootin'. Its not like I'd do anywhere like as good!
    Don’t know until you try. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 7,581 Senior Member
    Excellent work for both of you!
    Don't you know you can't shoot a 223 Rem that far???
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,196 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #12
    Zee said:
    ...
    Sighted in for ammo I have a bunch of. 
    77gr Mk262 Mod1

    Good ammo for the military. Not the greatest for long range. But, makes good brass. 😎
    Zeroed at 100
    Fired 2 rounds in the bullseye @ 300 to confirm StrelokPro was on and it was. 
    Then, we shot from 
    600
    700
    800 yards

    The first two were no problem. Other than a little wind, StrelokPro was spot on. At 800 yards, the vertical wheels came off. Likely having to do with the round passing through the transonic stage and getting..........cantankerous. Whatever the reason, impacts weren’t matching holds and there wasn’t an explanation other than........either we suck (possible) or the bullet went full ****.
    ...


    That'd be my guess.
    Actually, the atmospherics around the bullet went full-on tard.
    Using a guestimate of 2750 fps, a BC of .372 (according to Black Hills) and 1000 feet elevation on a 70° day with only 10% humidity (I don't actually know if any of these guesses were close but I needed something 😉), the bullet enters the transonic region very soon after 700 yards. The region around Mach 1.2 - 0.8 or about 1344 fps down to 896 fps (if and only if the speed of sound is about 1120 fps in your area). According to JBM, if the above assumptions were close then your bullets enter the **** region around 710 to 720 yards out.

    Sounds like a cool experiment for some future outing but first chrono your rounds and make note of the weather/humidity/elevation/temp. You know, the boring stuff. 🤣
    Never know, the info could be useful someday. At the least, it's an excuse to get outside in the name of science. 🚀
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    Your numbers are correct. 
    Even the estimated velocity of 2,750 which StrelokPro used as well. 
    I don’t really think the round is going that fast at the muzzle for my 20” barrel. But, if the numbers get me hits.....I do t care what algorithms the program uses. It was spot on until we got to 800. 🤟🏻
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • AntonioAntonio Senior Member Posts: 2,784 Senior Member
    Very nice! 800 yards seemed to me as too much for .223 but there is proof it's doable with the proper ammo and rifle. Cool Remington btw....
    Wind's your enemy indeed.
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    Really depends on the bullet and load. A better bullet and load would likely do.........better. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,094 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    zorba said:
    Damn fine shootin'. Its not like I'd do anywhere like as good!
    Don’t know until you try. 
    I've shot out to 100 a couple of times, and 300 once - both under guidance and supervision. I did actually manage to hit what I was shooting at - which probably says more about how well the rifle was sighted in than my innate ability! ;) I know that's "close in" for accomplished shooters, but to me it was somewhat of a BFD!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #17
    Spread your wings!! 

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,313 Senior Member
    Zorb,

    Long Range really isn't that difficult. Trajectories can be accurately predicted given a chrono and modern software. Really,  it's a slam-dunk for the most part. Given enough horsepower, if you can see it, you can hit it.

    Wind, OTOH,  while not much of a factor at 300 yards or less, becomes THE major factor at longer distances and all of us constantly struggle with it. 

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #19
    Zorb,

    Long Range really isn't that difficult. Trajectories can be accurately predicted given a chrono and modern software. Really,  it's a slam-dunk for the most part. Given enough horsepower, if you can see it, you can hit it.

    Wind, OTOH,  while not much of a factor at 300 yards or less, becomes THE major factor at longer distances and all of us constantly struggle with it. 

    Mike
    What he said. 
    Pegasus, while a knowledgeable and skilled individual, lacks the enter personal skills to be a good instructor and mentor. He’s an arrogant ass that speaks down as opposed to lateral to those around him. He personifies the detraction to long range shooting by over complicating the fun of shooting itself. Not everything is a competition. Most of it should just be damn fun. 
    Get out and shoot. Play around and see what happens. A little help can go a long way to making it fun and eventful. If the spark ignites to improve upon and push further, then go with it. 
    If not........have some freaking fun!!!  Piss on the snobs!! 

    If he had been my mentor so many years ago, I would not be where I am now. 

    My Mentor taught me, “If you can see it, you can hit it” and “The only way to learn how to shoot in the wind....is to shoot in the wind.”  He made it fun and informative. And now, it’s my living. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #20
    Seriously, I could likely have you shooting the same groups at 700 yards with a .223 Rem and having a blast doing it in mere minutes of watching, listening (to you as well), and tweaking. 

    You would be surprised how many times I’ve approached a concept or challenge with the mentality, “Hold my beer and watch this.”
    I don’t know if I can do it.  But I’ll Damn sure try!!!  I’ll accomplish or fail miserably........but it’ll be FUN!!!
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 7,495 Senior Member
    what he said.

    Distance is pretty easy. Spin the turret and squeeze it off. If you get a tail wind or a head wind it will mess you up a little in elevation, but if it is steady, dial it on and shoot.

    223 can be good at 1000, but not with 77gr anything. Last I heard the newest darling was the 85gr Berger.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,094 Senior Member
    Agreed, and thanx. I shoot when I can, and have fun even if I don't hit a damn thing. Weird eyesight doesn't help me any either, I'm sure - but whatever. Its just fun regardless!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    Agreed, and thanx. I shoot when I can, and have fun even if I don't hit a damn thing. Weird eyesight doesn't help me any either, I'm sure - but whatever. Its just fun regardless!
    Eyesight is beginning to rear its ugly head in my world and I’m trying to figure out the best course of action to combat it. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #24
    Antonio said:
    Very nice! 800 yards seemed to me as too much for .223 but there is proof it's doable with the proper ammo and rifle. Cool Remington btw....
    Wind's your enemy indeed.
    It’s a Catch-22. 

    Wind is the Enemy but a great Teacher as well. We learn from our enemy. Or, we should. 😉
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,094 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    zorba said:
    Agreed, and thanx. I shoot when I can, and have fun even if I don't hit a damn thing. Weird eyesight doesn't help me any either, I'm sure - but whatever. Its just fun regardless!
    Eyesight is beginning to rear its ugly head in my world and I’m trying to figure out the best course of action to combat it. 
    I've had horrid eyesight my entire life - that nerdy kid in grade school with the coke bottle bottom glasses? That was me, from 2nd grade forward. I only found out as an adult that I also lack normal depth perception - I'm not just right eye dominant, but actually so biased to my right eye to the almost complete exclusion of my left that apparently depth perception doesn't work normally for me - I have no way of really knowing other than I never could hit a softball or catch something coming straight at me. Up and over, sure - straight at, no way. Never mind extreme nearsightedness.

    How that affects my shooting, or even if it does, I have zero idea...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 24,772 Senior Member
    edited December 2020 #26
    Sounds like a scope would work well for you. Close your left eye, focus the ocular, adjust the parallax, and let fly. 
    Gonna hit something. 
    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,313 Senior Member
    I am legally (20/200) blind in my left eye and 20/100 in my right. While shooting BR comps wearing contacts, there were days the target would blur with every heartbeat. I mentioned this to my optometrist, who asked me was I using a scope. I replied, "of course".

    He said, "Forget contacts if you're going to shoot competition. Wear glasses driving to the range. Take them off when you look through the scope. That's what the scope's for, ****."

    He was right.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,094 Senior Member
    Zee said:
    Sounds like a scope would work well for you. Close your left eye, focus the ocular, adjust the parallax, and let fly. 
    Gonna hit something. 
    That has been my experience thus far! Don't even need to close the left, don't see much through it anyway!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,094 Senior Member
    I am legally (20/200) blind in my left eye and 20/100 in my right. While shooting BR comps wearing contacts, there were days the target would blur with every heartbeat. I mentioned this to my optometrist, who asked me was I using a scope. I replied, "of course".

    He said, "Forget contacts if you're going to shoot competition. Wear glasses driving to the range. Take them off when you look through the scope. That's what the scope's for, ****."

    He was right.

    Mike
    That's interesting - I've never tried looking through an optic of any kind without glasses. I'll see what happens...
    I only wear contacts when I'm performing - they're good enough to drive with, and keep me from falling off the stage, but that's about it.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,526 Senior Member
    I am legally (20/200) blind in my left eye and 20/100 in my right. While shooting BR comps wearing contacts, there were days the target would blur with every heartbeat. I mentioned this to my optometrist, who asked me was I using a scope. I replied, "of course".

    He said, "Forget contacts if you're going to shoot competition. Wear glasses driving to the range. Take them off when you look through the scope. That's what the scope's for, ****."

    He was right.

    Mike
    Wonder if that works with astigmatism?
    Overkill is underrated.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,775 Senior Member
    I am legally (20/200) blind in my left eye and 20/100 in my right. While shooting BR comps wearing contacts, there were days the target would blur with every heartbeat. I mentioned this to my optometrist, who asked me was I using a scope. I replied, "of course".

    He said, "Forget contacts if you're going to shoot competition. Wear glasses driving to the range. Take them off when you look through the scope. That's what the scope's for, ****."

    He was right.

    Mike
    Please tell your optometrist that "truer words have never been spoken."

    I discovered long time ago that looking through a riflescope (or any other optics) while wearing prescription glasses is less than optimum.  If you have bifocals it gets even worser (yep, that bad.)

    Sunglasses are also contra-indicated, even non prescription ones, though it's not as bad.

    Here's why bifocals are horrible things to wear while shooting.  Eyeglasses are nothing more than curved glass which make the incoming light focus a little bit in front of where it would normally focus after going through your iris.  The unit of measure of this correction is called a diopter and it is related to the curvature of the glass.  The higher the diopter, the more curved the glass is.

    In my case, I wear glasses because I am nearsighted (have been for 50+ years) and changed to bifocals about 15 years ago when my arms started getting shorter.  The bifocal lens is essentially a piece of glass that swings both ways.  It's curved one way on the top half (or more line 2/3 or more) and curved the other way at the bottom, or at least less curved.

    When I am behind my rifle in the prone position, it is impossible for me to look through my scope using the bottom part of my glasses.  Indeed I'm not even looking though the middle part of my glasses, it's more like the upper left quadrant of the right lens, where everything that comes off my face accumulates.

    A riflescope's mission is to present to your eye an image where the target and the reticle are in the same plane and about 4 inches in front of you.  Riflescope makers build in a diopter correction in the eyepiece that usually goes from -2 diopters to +2 diopters.  A normal eyesighted person should have the diopter set at about -0.5, but 0 is fine also.  If you introduce your prescription glasses into the equation, things start going wonky on you.

    The trick I sometimes use to have my glasses on my nose so I can monitor the conditions is the simply wear my glasses at the tip of my nose, thus allowing me to look through the riflescope's eyepiece above my glasses. This way, my polycarb prescription glasses are my last line of defense for any possibility of blowback from the action and they are exactly where I need them to be to read or write as needed.

    Also, in 100+ degree heat, glasses tend to fog, collect sweat and so on.  When it's cold, they fog up almost instantly.  Yeah, there's all manners of anti-fogging stuff, they're all a pain and don't last.
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