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Does anyone know what's going on with Snake?

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  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,303 Senior Member
    edited February 3 #32
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    I remember when I upgraded my 300 baud acoustic coupled MODEM to a 1200 baud DIRECT CONNECT! I was cookin' with gas then!
    Ha!  My first acoustic coupled keyboard/modem (NOT a PC) had an exposed pot that I had to tweak with a screwdriver while hitting enter on the keyboard until it connected!!! The “monitor” was a small TV🤣🤣🤣
    Your TRS-80, I assume? I had a full blown system (eventually), my first. I also built an IMSAI, which I still have...
    Nope actually a "terminal" we built to access the UNIVAC Series 90 in College when they were dumb enough to let us do that  >:)
    UNIVAC? That was the very first computer I ever had experience with - a 90/70. Learned BASIC on it. The local CC I attended had obtained it from DisneyLand - the joke was that Mickey Mouse was still living in it. It came to a bad end when the HVAC flooded it, but I can still remember some of the commands.

    I was taking a FORTRAN and COBOL class and the University was dumb enough to allow us complete access to the system.  When we figured how to send the drive heads directly from cylinder 0 track 0 to the last cylinder/track and back repeatedly in a loop the computer operators had a very interesting day...
    Snort! I bet they just *LOVED* you guys. Did you do it in COBOL? ;) I do remember it was hard to stop an infinite loop, unless you knew the CAN command - but you had to ID the process and CAN it from another terminal. I was still getting my jollies from 'HELLO A$', but quickly found out a few of the more esoteric commands.
    Best part of ours was that it ran "Adventure"! We had 300 baud ADM3s all over campus - unless you were an instructor, then you had 1200 baud.
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,317 Senior Member
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    I remember when I upgraded my 300 baud acoustic coupled MODEM to a 1200 baud DIRECT CONNECT! I was cookin' with gas then!
    Ha!  My first acoustic coupled keyboard/modem (NOT a PC) had an exposed pot that I had to tweak with a screwdriver while hitting enter on the keyboard until it connected!!! The “monitor” was a small TV🤣🤣🤣
    Your TRS-80, I assume? I had a full blown system (eventually), my first. I also built an IMSAI, which I still have...
    Nope actually a "terminal" we built to access the UNIVAC Series 90 in College when they were dumb enough to let us do that  >:)
    UNIVAC? That was the very first computer I ever had experience with - a 90/70. Learned BASIC on it. The local CC I attended had obtained it from DisneyLand - the joke was that Mickey Mouse was still living in it. It came to a bad end when the HVAC flooded it, but I can still remember some of the commands.

    I was taking a FORTRAN and COBOL class and the University was dumb enough to allow us complete access to the system.  When we figured how to send the drive heads directly from cylinder 0 track 0 to the last cylinder/track and back repeatedly in a loop the computer operators had a very interesting day...
    Snort! I bet they just *LOVED* you guys. Did you do it in COBOL? ;) I do remember it was hard to stop an infinite loop, unless you knew the CAN command - but you had to ID the process and CAN it from another terminal. I was still getting my jollies from 'HELLO A$', but quickly found out a few of the more esoteric commands.
    Best part of ours was that it ran "Adventure"! We had 300 baud ADM3s all over campus - unless you were an instructor, then you had 1200 baud.
    Wrote a subroutine in Assembly Language... 🤣
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,303 Senior Member
    edited February 3 #34
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    GunNut said:
    zorba said:
    I remember when I upgraded my 300 baud acoustic coupled MODEM to a 1200 baud DIRECT CONNECT! I was cookin' with gas then!
    Ha!  My first acoustic coupled keyboard/modem (NOT a PC) had an exposed pot that I had to tweak with a screwdriver while hitting enter on the keyboard until it connected!!! The “monitor” was a small TV🤣🤣🤣
    Your TRS-80, I assume? I had a full blown system (eventually), my first. I also built an IMSAI, which I still have...
    Nope actually a "terminal" we built to access the UNIVAC Series 90 in College when they were dumb enough to let us do that  >:)
    UNIVAC? That was the very first computer I ever had experience with - a 90/70. Learned BASIC on it. The local CC I attended had obtained it from DisneyLand - the joke was that Mickey Mouse was still living in it. It came to a bad end when the HVAC flooded it, but I can still remember some of the commands.

    I was taking a FORTRAN and COBOL class and the University was dumb enough to allow us complete access to the system.  When we figured how to send the drive heads directly from cylinder 0 track 0 to the last cylinder/track and back repeatedly in a loop the computer operators had a very interesting day...
    Snort! I bet they just *LOVED* you guys. Did you do it in COBOL? ;) I do remember it was hard to stop an infinite loop, unless you knew the CAN command - but you had to ID the process and CAN it from another terminal. I was still getting my jollies from 'HELLO A$', but quickly found out a few of the more esoteric commands.
    Best part of ours was that it ran "Adventure"! We had 300 baud ADM3s all over campus - unless you were an instructor, then you had 1200 baud.
    Wrote a subroutine in Assembly Language... 🤣
    Cool! I never did assembly on "big iron" at all. My own assembly/machine coding was a year or so away from when I was messing with the UNIVAC - I can still remember my first assembly "program" on the TRS-80. I managed to white out the screen, but I didn't know at first how to stop the program after that, so it just kept incrementing, writing FF to all memory until it overwrote itself, forcing it to execute a RST 7, which vectored it into ROM at 0038 and crash. Eventually, I made my living writing assembly code for well over a decade, and its still my first love computerwise. 8080/Z80, 6800, 6809 (My fave 8 bitter), even a bit of 6502; then x86 and 68K. I loved the 68K, it made the x86 look extraordinarily crude - I once hand translated a fairly large (for the day) x86 program to 68K. Entire routines got much shorter and far more elegant - the only caveat was that called subroutines had to be word aligned, which wasn't a problem unless one was mixing code and data.

    Then there were the 4 bitters, 4004/4040. Crude beyond belief. About the only processors from those days that I didn't at least do a bit of coding for were the 8008 and the RCA 1802.

    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,302 Senior Member
    edited February 3 #35
    ....
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,302 Senior Member
    You guys are talking like machinists about G54 and G55 offsets in X-Y with a Z offset in Delta between the 2. Way to go! I love it.

    Mike

    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,303 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    You guys are talking like machinists about G54 and G55 offsets in X-Y with a Z offset in Delta between the 2. Way to go! I love it.

    Mike

    I never understood just *HOW* that guy was able to keep a straight face!
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Univac?  You guys really are dating yourselves.

    I learned programming languages (Fortran, Cobol, assembler) on an IBM 360.  Input was keypunched cards.  Output was a printout.

    Nothing like being on a tight schedule trying to get a program to run while waiting on a keypunch machine to become available just to change one card, and hope the keypunch machine was working properly.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,303 Senior Member
    edited February 3 #39
    I managed to *just* avoid the keypunch era, although I did have some experiences with punched paper tape, involving an ASR-33 TTY. A co-worker told me a story years back - seems his keypunched program had an error. He submitted his deck to run overnight, the next morning there was a stack of printout on his desk about 3 feet high! There was a single dot in the home position of each page - and that was all. The program just printed the dot followed by a form feed - in an infinite loop. A note on the top of the printout said "If you want the rest of your printout, we'll send it over in a truck." (!!)
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    I used to talk like you guys but I kept getting this kind of response from the people around me.

    I'm glad the punch cards went the way of the dinosaur. I'm glad I don't have to do assembly, C or Fortran anymore. I still do a little C++ but only to write math algorithms I need for work. Other than that, I use a hand calculator for everything, and by hand calculator I mean my phone. Nothing too fancy these days, just simple stuff. 😁
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,317 Senior Member
    edited February 3 #41
    Univac?  You guys really are dating yourselves.

    I learned programming languages (Fortran, Cobol, assembler) on an IBM 360.  Input was keypunched cards.  Output was a printout.

    Nothing like being on a tight schedule trying to get a program to run while waiting on a keypunch machine to become available just to change one card, and hope the keypunch machine was working properly.
    HA!!!  Nothing like handing a dumb ass computer operator OVER 2,500 cards of assembler code, freshly keypunched and in sequence in a box and the dumb ass puts the box next to the reader on top of an old IBM high output chain-driven printer, you know the big ones that would automatically pop open the top when they ran out of paper?

    Yep, paper ran out, top opened, and box of cards ended up in a big mess all over the floor...  I think that dumbass' is still under the raised floor in the computer room where I hid his body...  Just a shriveled up desiccated body...

    I started on the Univac and Quantel (anyone ever heard of those?) minis in college, moved to IBM 360/370 mainframes out of school and then on to HP-3000s networked all over the USA in the infancy of the internet when the protocol of choice was X.25 over 9600 baud dedicated modems!!!  I also did some work for HP Labs on operating systems internals, fixing crap that kept blowing up my shop which was the FIRST commercial installation of an HP LAN. 

    I also used to program assembly code for EPROMS for prototypes of specialized machines for construction and military so I know how to wire wrap boards and how to acid etch them.  My bibles were books like the old Intel and Texas Instruments chip catalogue.

    GOD those were fun days!!!!!
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,317 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    I used to talk like you guys but I kept getting this kind of response from the people around me.

    I'm glad the punch cards went the way of the dinosaur. I'm glad I don't have to do assembly, C or Fortran anymore. I still do a little C++ but only to write math algorithms I need for work. Other than that, I use a hand calculator for everything, and by hand calculator I mean my phone. Nothing too fancy these days, just simple stuff. 😁
    AT&T Trained me on C++ and Unix way back when, as they were trying to make a geek programmer into a computer sales guy.  They were my first sales job, hired because they could not spell byte outside of Bell Labs.   Back then they wanted their sales people to actually understand AND be proficient on the technology they sold.
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,303 Senior Member
    edited February 3 #43
    GunNut said:

    I also used to program assembly code for EPROMS for prototypes of specialized machines for construction and military so I know how to wire wrap boards and how to acid etch them.  My bibles were books like the old Intel and Texas Instruments chip catalogue.

    GOD those were fun days!!!!!
    Yep - they were the fun days! Computers just aren't fun anymore - or at least not nearly as much fun. And a metric butt-load of bad code is out there these days. It takes a completely different technique to write ROM-able code, and better technique to minimize latency and code space. I still have a copy of "The TTL Data Book" - "Bible" indeed! I've done my share of wire-wrap, have also acid etched crude "copper boards", and did PCB layout for several years. So it sounds like we had similar backgrounds in many ways.
    But I never was a fan of "C" or other ALGOL descendant languages - whoever thought that was a good language syntax should have had their head examined. It was, however, a self-fulfilling prophecy - "C is the next big thing", enough people said it, so it became reality. About the closest I came to C was Pascal, yet another ALGOL descendant, but more-or-less understandable. Outside of passwords, case dependency is NEVER a good thing! I never did much coding in it at all, but I admired many things about COBOL, albeit not so much its column dependencies that some variants had. I did some small amount with Forth as well - which has been described as a "write-only language".
    Goddess knows I wrote enough spaghetti code in BASIC though...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    I always thought that C++ was a tribute to someone's ego.  Never saw the utility of it, even though I support it for commercial customers today.

    I like C better, but figure it was named after the grade that its developer got in a compiler class.

    I like Fortran.  Period.

    Since I no longer work for these companies, I'll post a little of my past work history.  I got my first exposure to Vax VMS in 1980, started for Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) in '87.  That's when it was a really great company to work for.  Started doing customer support for Dec in '90, and stayed with it through the Compaq buy out and then the subsequent HP buyout.  Retired from HP in 2013.

    A few years later got an offer I couldn't refuse from a startup and am still with them.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • Gene LGene L Senior Member Posts: 12,140 Senior Member
    Speaking of 60s and 70s technology, does anyone remember wire tape recorders? 
    Concealed carry is for protection, open carry is for attention.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,303 Senior Member
    I always thought that C++ was a tribute to someone's ego.  Never saw the utility of it, even though I support it for commercial customers today.

    I like C better, but figure it was named after the grade that its developer got in a compiler class.

    I like Fortran.  Period.

    I've never written a line of FORTRAN code - but from what I can see of it, its syntax is head and shoulders above C or any other ALGOL descendant. I respect the power of C, but I do think the syntax could be vastly improved upon - dump the damn semi-colons for Goddess's sake, and get rid of the case dependency while you're at it. I came from an UPPER CASE ONLY world, lower case source just doesn't work for me. Never mind the cutesy acronyms that are endemic in the C and UNIX worlds - "Obfuscated C code contest?" Hell, virtually *ALL* C code is obfuscated! But I guess C practice trumps Java practice - where variables and labels are usually camel case yet still have case sensitivity!
    At least the guy who wrote C actually *took* a compiler class, a lot of these code monkeys nowadays didn't pass CS-101 - or even take it for that matter! K&R certainly knew compiler theory - although they thought the programmer should work for the compiler instead of vice-versa. What do you mean I can't have forward references?
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    edited February 4 #47
    Now that we're talking about BASIC. Remember QDOS and QBASIC? As if things couldn't get anymore annoying. I actually wrote a lot of stuff in DOS. Anyone still remember Pearl? These days the "it" thing is either APK's or IPA's. I never got much into JAVA but I did write a lot of script in Javascript, HTML and to a lesser extent CSS.
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 8,227 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    Now that we're talking about BASIC. Remember QDOS and QBASIC? As if things couldn't get anymore annoying. I actually wrote a lot of stuff in DOS. Anyone still remember Pearl? These days the "it" thing is either APK's or IPA's. I never got much into JAVA but I did write a lot of script in Javascript, HTML and to a lesser extent CSS.
    Pearl is still available as opensource code.  The company I work for provides a version for VMS.  DOS really is old, and I've never heard of the two Q compilers you mentioned.

    We see quite a bit of Java in use.  I'm not familiar with it, though.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,303 Senior Member
    edited February 4 #49
    I remember Q "Quick" BASIC, but it came along pretty much after I had quit using BASIC - I never did too much BASIC programming on that new fangled PC. DOS was, of course, a clone of CP/M, which is what I cut my teeth on post UNIVAC. As far as DOS went, the best thing that ever happened to it was a replacement shell called "4DOS", that had capabilities not found even in "bash" or other UNIX shells - VERY powerful. I used 4DOS a lot...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,160 Senior Member

    I used to talk like you guys but I kept getting this kind of response from the people around me.
    AT&T Trained me on C++ and Unix way back when, as they were trying to make a geek programmer into a computer sales guy.  They were my first sales job, hired because they could not spell byte outside of Bell Labs.   Back then they wanted their sales people to actually understand AND be proficient on the technology they sold.
    I worked for Bell Labs (Bell Core) for two years in 89 through 91.  It was easy to spell bite oops I mean byte!  :D:smiley:
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • BamaakIIBamaakII Posts: 349 Member
    edited February 13 #51
    I was arguing with mediacom tech support chick when she kept calling it a modem.  I Said we don't really have modems any longer and she was adament you can't have the internet without a modem.  I told her I realize the term modem is still used but they no longer modulate/demodulate so it's not a proper term.  She didn't get it.
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,160 Senior Member
    edited February 13 #52
    BamaakII said:
    I was arguing with mediacom tech support chick when she kept calling it a modem.  I Said we don't really have modems any longer and she was adament you can't have the internet without a modem.  I told her I realize the term modem is still used but they no longer modulate/demodulate so it's not a proper term.  She didn't get it.
    Ah, my friend you would be incorrect!  Here's your history lesson for today!  Technically, there are still 10's of million of dial up modems in existence today though know one realizes it.  Some are still being installed today.  I'm not talking DSL or cable modems (more on those in a minute), just plain old dial up modems.    The truth be told, caller ID, call waiting and other calling features all operate over dial tone using specific modulation frequencies (analog tone).  Built into phones and the old caller ID boxes we're modems to receive those tones. 

    DSL and cable modems used for high speed internet access are pure and simple modems.  When someone says they have DSL services (digital subscriber loop) whether it's ADSL, ADSL2+,  VDSL, VDSL2+ or g.fast dsl these are 100% analog services.  There's nothing digital in DSL or for that fact a cable modem using DOCIS. DSL services such as ADSL 2+ uses 512 4.3125 kHz bins or sub-modems.  These are not dial up connections but nailed up connections between the DSLAM port and the DSL modem or headend and the cable modem.  VDSL 2+ 17a profile uses 4096 4.3125 kHz bins (sub-modems).  All of these services use FDM (Frequency Division Multiplexing) which has been around for a 130+ years) Each of these services are asymmetrical meaning depending on speeds there's a given number of upstream and downstream bins.  Same with DOCIS on cable modems but not my area of expertise.  I come from the telco side of life (AT&T) and once Bell Core (Bell Labs) in a former life.

    The original HDSL T1's in the 90's used 2B1Q digital coding schemes to transport T1's between the HDSL-C (CO unit) to the HDSL-R (remote unit).  Starting in the late 90's HDSL circuits as well as G.HDSL services uses an analog coding scheme called 16-Terllis  PAM (Pulse Amplitude Modulation). Meaning the two HSDL or G.SHDSL units are modems.  Digital T1 or Ethernet circuit into the HDSL or G.SHDSL card, convert to 16-Terllis PAM between DSL cards) and convert back to T1 or Ethernet at the far end card.  Simple modulation/demodulation

    And that's your history lesson for today!
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,160 Senior Member
    Also, mobile phones/networks use analog carriers and modems as well.  Most of the DSL and DOCIS technologies piggybacked on the 3G, 4G and now 5G cellular networks technologies such as Vectoring and OFDM.  Today's cellular networks use OFDM (Orthogonal frequency-division multiplexing).  Getting speeds up to 1 to 5 gigs over a twisted cable pair using g.fast dsl required a shift from FDM to OFDM modulations.  DSL is always and will always be a rate/reach technologies.  Meaning the faster you go in speeds, distance over copper cable pairs decreases.  Getting 1 to 5 gigs over g.fast DSL is basically a fiber to the curb technology.  Fiber to the curb and a twisted cable pair drop to the house not over 300'.

    The bottom line pure digital circuits are very restrictive in some manners especially when it comes to distance and range.  On copper cable pairs distance was always an issues.  They had use digital repeaters, for T1's this meant repeaters every 6000'.  Plus the old TDM technologies such as T1/T3, ISDN, SOnet and ATM were very expensive to deploy whether it was over fiber, coax or twisted cable pairs.  

    Using fiber made digital circuits much easier to deploy.  This gave much greater distances but even light attenuates (loses power) over distance and needs to be regenerated.  


    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,410 Senior Member
    I can't delete, so.... I posted this.

    Carry on. 

    Mike

    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,624 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    As long as we are doing this, anybody heard how pjames is doing? Coolgunguy? Jay?
    I'm here on occasion, thanks for asking.  Sorry I didn't respond sooner... family stuff. 
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • Jeff in TXJeff in TX Senior Member Posts: 2,160 Senior Member
    I can't delete, so.... I posted this.

    Carry on. 

    Mike

    Sorry Mike couldn’t sleep and the geek engineer jumped out of me.   I’ll go back to my quiet corner. 
    Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!

    John 3: 1-21
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,206 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    As long as we are doing this, anybody heard how pjames is doing? Coolgunguy? Jay?
    I'm here on occasion, thanks for asking.  Sorry I didn't respond sooner... family stuff. 
    Good to see you check in, thought maybe you got your tongue stuck on a flagpole  ;)
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • coolgunguycoolgunguy Senior Member Posts: 6,624 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    As long as we are doing this, anybody heard how pjames is doing? Coolgunguy? Jay?
    I'm here on occasion, thanks for asking.  Sorry I didn't respond sooner... family stuff. 
    Good to see you check in, thought maybe you got your tongue stuck on a flagpole  ;)
    Build a thousand bridges... 😉🤣
    "Bipartisan" usually means that a bigger than normal deception is happening.
    George Carlin
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    CHIRO1989 said:
    CHIRO1989 said:
    As long as we are doing this, anybody heard how pjames is doing? Coolgunguy? Jay?
    I'm here on occasion, thanks for asking.  Sorry I didn't respond sooner... family stuff. 
    Good to see you check in, thought maybe you got your tongue stuck on a flagpole  ;)


    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,394 Senior Member
    I can't delete, so.... I posted this.

    Carry on. 

    Mike


    I got nothing so I just posted this.
    The Truffle Shuffle
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,410 Senior Member
    I can't delete, so.... I posted this.

    Carry on. 

    Mike

    Sorry Mike couldn’t sleep and the geek engineer jumped out of me.   I’ll go back to my quiet corner. 
    I didn't delete anything directed at you. I just tried to edit something due to a word I couldn't spell, couldn't figure out, but I had to post something else it become a permanent draft. You weren't involved at all.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
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