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We really need more Trade Schools

LinefinderLinefinder ModeratorPosts: 7,464 Senior Member
This is not a rant. Just an observation.

The company I work for recently hired an engineer with a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering. One of this persons first assignments was designing an assembly fixture for me to fabricate on a manual mill. This engineer wanted to watch me fabricate it....at least the less tedious, boring parts.

Time came....the engineer walked up to me and asked "What is this tool called?". I replied," A flat half inch 4 flute end mill".

"No....I mean this".....she replied, and patted her hand on it for emphasis.

"That, m'aam, is a Bridgeport vertical mill.".

A Masters in Mechanical Engineering. I kid you not.

Mike
"Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
N454casull
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Replies

  • PFDPFD Senior Member Posts: 1,552 Senior Member
    Bless her for showing an interest?????
    Yeah, hers was not a hands on school.
    Mike Rowe for president!
    That's all I got.

    Paul
  • JustsomedudeJustsomedude Posts: 858 Senior Member
    These folks are why you couldn't discount an American automobile enough for me to purchase it. There's too many idiots that can test well but can't tie their shoes in the US.
    We've been conditioned to believe that obedience is virtuous and voting is freedom- 
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,431 Senior Member
    This is not a rant. Just an observation.

    The company I work for recently hired an engineer with a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering. One of this persons first assignments was designing an assembly fixture for me to fabricate on a manual mill. This engineer wanted to watch me fabricate it....at least the less tedious, boring parts.

    Time came....the engineer walked up to me and asked "What is this tool called?". I replied," A flat half inch 4 flute end mill".

    "No....I mean this".....she replied, and patted her hand on it for emphasis.

    "That, m'aam, is a Bridgeport vertical mill.".

    A Masters in Mechanical Engineering. I kid you not.

    Mike
    It's the way the academic curriculums are structured. When I went to school it was all about math, physics, programing and CAD programs. The labs weren't much better, heavy on theory and building circuits was all about breadboards.
    Fortunately, before all that, I spent 3 years at my local community college were everything was hands on and we actually got to play with real world equipment.
    Later on, I nicknamed one of my University lab partners Sparky! Can you guess why?
    He was from India and was a math whiz but I just didn't trust him around high voltage. 😁

    So good for her, for at least showing an interest in the things she didn't learn in school. 👍
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,464 Senior Member
    Actually, this wasn't a complaint against her. She seems very eager to learn about things she's never been taught. She shows every sign of becoming the best engineer I've ever worked with.

    Otoh, she said she'd once taken a class on "feeds and speeds" and knew a bit about them. I asked her "CNC" or manual? She didn't know. Not her fault. I'm glad she cares.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 11,533 Senior Member
    This is not a rant. Just an observation.

    The company I work for recently hired an engineer with a Masters Degree in Mechanical Engineering. One of this persons first assignments was designing an assembly fixture for me to fabricate on a manual mill. This engineer wanted to watch me fabricate it....at least the less tedious, boring parts.

    Time came....the engineer walked up to me and asked "What is this tool called?". I replied," A flat half inch 4 flute end mill".

    "No....I mean this".....she replied, and patted her hand on it for emphasis.

    "That, m'aam, is a Bridgeport vertical mill.".

    A Masters in Mechanical Engineering. I kid you not.

    Mike
    I know a few millionaires.  A large chunk of them are people that went to trade schools- plumbers, electricians, etc... that started then sold their own companies.

    idiots like me that went to college usually end up working our whole lives and never retiring.
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,591 Senior Member
    Well, she is a mechanical engineer,  not a machinist.   She is supposed to design it, you make it
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,464 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Well, she is a mechanical engineer,  not a machinist.   She is supposed to design it, you make it
    Very true. At one point today I told her that I didn't have the education to do what she does, and she didn't have the training to do what I do. Meeting in the middle would make life a lot easier for both of us.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,464 Senior Member
    And...just because it can be drawn doesn't mean it can be built.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Posts: 11,591 Senior Member
    Kind of neat that she wants to see how the parts for her design are made 
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,431 Senior Member
    And...just because it can be drawn doesn't mean it can be built.

    Mike
    Mike, I have a cool idea for a landscape waterfall, I just need you to build it.
    😁
    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • ilove22silove22s Senior Member Posts: 1,465 Senior Member
    Well....

    I could have been that person if i didnt go to a trade (high) school.

    Also, i discovered on my 1st job out of college, that not everyone is the same....go figure... and not everyone has the same background....again, go figure.... and that not everyone had a dad that did his own tuneups and maintenance on his car....and again go figure....and that i would be his little grease monkey... and help him grease the car, change oil, tune using a timing light (remember those) and remembering what cylinder to use (ford vs chevy) and cleaning off the plate with the timing marks and so forth....

    but back to my 1st job, i had a good idea and background on somethings, not everything mind you. But one of the new employees had a Masters in ME and worked at JPL and so forth.  was also a vet, i forget what service and what he did, but he had no idea on what a "hex socket" or "allen key socket" was.......But i learned alot from him and what he didnt know.  Again, i assumed everyone had a dad that got under the car and did the maintenance and so forth and every dad had some tools to do the work. 

    But that wasnt so.  So i had to get my head screwed back on straight - again - and try to get an idea on every new persons background.  Some had more and some had less of a background on certain things.  Communication is nice and i use it more than to assume/guess what the persons background.

    To get that job, the Engineer asked me what hobbies i had... such as model making...shop clases and so forth.  I had a class in plastics where we had an extruder, rotational mold machine, injection molder and some other basic tools/equipment.  We also did some PVC welding ,vacuum molding machine and some pressed that used heated molds and molded phenolic parts (remember those?)..  But that background/info got me in the door to work on extruders.  I was just lucky i choose that 1 shop over others....The model making was asked since it may show you have some attention to detail and that was part of the molding process.  The company made underwater fiber optic cable (whats that?) and i had no idea on what it was other than the title.  But i can tell you i spent weeks at the local libraries getting as many books and reading up on what it was and how things were done at that time and in the books i could find.  And note, this was before the internet too!

    So, yes, a trade school will help, but sometimes you just need to get your nose back to the grindstone and head to your library or start googling.

    My new job is in the semiconductor industry and we have some CNC machines... specifically some Vertical Mills... .i never used one in HS but i knew of them from some tours in Leopold and some other companies.  Really cool tools, but for the most part way past the manual mills we had in HS.  I have to do some PM work on them and maybe deal with some tool head drops and maybe some SW issues, but thats about it.  I do know how to move the table manually and the tool head? up/down and thats about all i really need to know.  Im sure i could "run" the machine if needed since from my experience, they try not to make it too difficult/hard for people.  its just a matter of reading whats where and whats what and loading the correct program for what you want to do and to read any errors that maybe going on.

    But what it comes down to is that it would be nice if everyone could get the background knowledge it takes to do their job, but i dont see it happening.  Thats where being 'seasoned" comes from and if you are lucky, able to stay in 1 or a field for a amount of time to pickup that knowledge.

    Depending on the school your ME went to, they may not have the "shop" side of things.  I know our local college where i went to get my BS didnt have much of a shop.  We did have a testing lab to destroy/test/measure things, but for the most part, no shop for making anything or using any tools.  

    Note, this current job is my 2nd job in the semiconductor industry, but its from a "supplier" point.  My 1st time was IN the semiconductor - making those chips but it was on the final test side, where we tested those chips, not make them.  This time, its making a consumable that is USED to make the wafers.  So, you would think, i should know whats what and how things are made, its not so.  Alot of different pieces to make that puzzle.  So i have to learn alot - again.

    I also had a job in the automation industry and this was where i had to use some fit/tolerance.  never need it before, but again, dust off those books and readup. I remember i had to do some fit/tolerance but never had a "feel" for what each actually was in the real world.  I asked our machinist about them and he was willing to take me under his wing for the short time and show samples.  I do know what an "interfere" fit was since its self descriptive but the other fits that were not "interference" i had to get a "feel" for.

    but if i may suggest, the next time you are in that situation, you may want to give them a benefit of the doubt and educate them on what they missed.   I love to ask questions and that i found out that not everyone will be speaking the same language or mean the something. So its why i ask questions.  And note that some people will have that thirst for learning and some wont. Some wont care.  but for those that have that thirst, i would try not to put a damper on it.  I see it as we all learn from one another.  Or at least i hope we do.  I know i do.

    good luck












    The ears never lie.

    - Don Burt
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 10,346 Senior Member
    edited May 26 #14
    I regert not going to vocational school. I did major in Industrial Arts though (last year it was allowed)

    Freshman year was machine and wood shop. 

    Sophmore was mechanical drawing and sheet metal

    Junior was drafting

    Senior was wood II and machine shop II. Two periods each.

     My sr year schedule was study hall, typing (teacher was H. O. T. ), study hall, basic computer, lunch, wood shop, wood shop, machine shop, machine shop.

    Both wood and machine teachers missed a lot of the year (illnesses) so that was 4 more study halls. I just skipped at lunch and went to work. Someone had to notice but never said anything. Wasn't till last week of school I found out if I had missed or been tardy one more time I wouldn't graduate..... Which sucked. I had planned on skipping most of the last week..

     
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,647 Senior Member
    Humans are becoming way too specialized in their job duties and abilities, IMHO.  https://forums.gunsandammo.com/discussion/39666/lessons-from-world-war-z/p1

    But it really starts in middle/junior high schools now: kids get into a STEM, arts, or other kind of track and the old standbys of "industrial arts" aka shop classes are only available to the folks deemed lower-tier by those who determine such things.  So you wind up with a system that makes people book smart and those who are very practical and unlikely to really interact much.  Such a pity, as you really need both.  But the educational system doesn't really reward this.  I've said it here and other places, but instead of grading schools on how many students go to college, and instead looking at the percentage of those who finish college out of those who go, might be a better metric.  It would maybe put pressure on only sending college-ready students to college.

    But just being in the trades isn't really enough.  I worked construction, and the folks designing the houses didn't really know how a house was built, or some of the techniques.  No college degree needed for the job, but they didn't know what they were really doing as far as practical application goes.  On the other hand I handled change orders and repairs for plenty of folks who couldn't tell which way a door swung on a blueprint, who didn't realize that just because the wall was built they'd need to find a stud to hang items on, or who couldn't tell a laundry chute from a door (really: person didn't want the chute to stick out, so we had to build a door in the pass-through.)

    In that time I've learned that in some fields an individual who can handle basic 12v and 110v wiring, do basic vehicle, vessel, and building maintenance, and who has a knowledge of construction is becoming increasingly more rare, and not necessarily valued until those skills are needed.  The systems generally deselect against such abilities.  
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JayJay Senior Member Posts: 4,005 Senior Member
    I learned more useful information that has had far more impact on my every day life my high school Ag Mechanics classes and FFA than I did from all other classes, by far.  Sure math, science, biology, and all the other regular classes were important. But for every day use in actual life, I learned more trade skills by far in the ag shop and at the FFA farm than anything else. And not just the actual skills; welding, cutting, brazing, etc. I believe it also taught something that is all but gone in education and parenting these days; problem solving. I see so many younger folks who are not capable of looking at a problem and figuring it out.. Generations who've had someone else solve their problems for them, whether it be parents, teachers or their smartphones. From not knowing how to change a flat tire to, in some cases, people who don't know how to pump their own gas....

    Here's a story that recently drove that point home. 

    Not long ago, I was at work. I was in the parking lot, which is a secure parking lot with a drive through gate and a walk through gate that only opens from the inside. Having already been through that walk-through gate and had an issue with it, I was aware of the problem. It took me 5 seconds to figure it out and open the gate.  It was recently installed, which was done early in the morning when it was cool. By the afternoon, it was hot and the gate flexed, which cased the latch mechanism to get out of alignment and stuck and the gate wouldn't open. All it took was looking at the latch and poking it with my finger to open it. I watched 4 rookies walk up to the gate that afternoon and couldn't get it to open. All of them stood there staring at the gate, confused, apparently not able to figure out the problem. They stood there until a supervisor walked over there, looked at it for a second and opened it for them. Problem solved. I was going to sit there and watch them figure it out.... 

    My son got in a program in high school that allowed him to spend his last year and a half going half days to the community college for welding classes. He learned important skills, and got college credit while in high school. Right out of high school, he got a great job in a factory building fire trucks with great pay and full benefits. He's now with a different company and making nearly what I make, that's taken me over 20 years to get to... He's now planning on going back to school in the fall to start on his engineering degree. I'm obviously proud of him. And I think he'll do well with some real world working knowledge combined with that education.. 

    Sometimes you have to let them have problems and learn how to solve them rather than fixing it for them.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,647 Senior Member
    Jay, I think you really pointed out one big problem: parents not parenting and teaching their kids problem solving and critical thinking.  At one time this was also covered by the schools, but it's really the parents' job to do this.

    There's memes that are readily spread by folks of an older generation about how schools should teach life skills: changing a tire, balancing a checkbook (who even has a checkbook these days?,) doing taxes, cooking a meal, and other things.  Here's the thing:  my parents taught me that stuff.  Because they were... parents.  I'll never forget when I asked my Dad how to do my taxes.  His response was, "you know how to read and how to do math.  You figure it out.  I will help you check your numbers when you're done."  He was right.  But the funny thing is, the folks saying that stuff needs to be taught... didn't teach it.  They want the state to do what their predecessors had been doing for a while.  
    Overkill is underrated.
  • ilove22silove22s Senior Member Posts: 1,465 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio said:
    I regert not going to vocational school. I did major in Industrial Arts though (last year it was allowed)

    Freshman year was machine and wood shop. 

    Sophmore was mechanical drawing and sheet metal

    Junior was drafting

    Senior was wood II and machine shop II. Two periods each.

     My sr year schedule was study hall, typing (teacher was H. O. T. ), study hall, basic computer, lunch, wood shop, wood shop, machine shop, machine shop.

    Both wood and machine teachers missed a lot of the year (illnesses) so that was 4 more study halls. I just skipped at lunch and went to work. Someone had to notice but never said anything. Wasn't till last week of school I found out if I had missed or been tardy one more time I wouldn't graduate..... Which sucked. I had planned on skipping most of the last week..

     
    The HS i went to was a "magnet" School and you had to apply and a teacher had to recommend you foo the school to get in if you were lucky.

    But in order to graduate, you had to take....no if, ands or buts.

     > sheetmetal (basics)
     > machine  (basics)
     > basic electricity
     > basic automotive
     > drafting (vellum/pencil)

    BC, advance machine, advance sheetmetal, aviation, welding, pattern making, foundry, printing/photo, plastics were all electives after your freshman year....

    to me there is alot out there to learn and not enough time to do it unless you want to make changes and maybe make school 24/7/365 and so forth.

    but for the most part what i also noticed was that depending on your school it may or may not prepare you for college.  From what i found out later, they sort of do where you can take Advance Placement (AP) courses if you are good enough.  But what i noticed in my HS was that the teachers/advisors cared about you, at least the did in my school.  they would push you so much, but only so much, the rest was up to you.  In college, no one really cared until my last year or so and once they had your $$$, it was all on you and if you showed up or partied 24/7.

    Also i seem to remember reading something that our current school system was more or less setup after WWII.  the needs of the made the schools what they are now and to feed the war machine.  Just like the CMP was to teach basic marksmanship so that could be skipped? during basic?

    I watch some DIY shows like "this old house" and noticed that some of them have episodes where they have apprentices.   They are trying to bring in "new/young" blood into the trades and so forth.  just like other sports needing/wanting new/young blood or they will eventually fade away.

    i also noticed they are trying to get females into the trades now too.    But it will take time to get the new blood into the system and so forth.   I remember asking a refrigeration guy about his trade and he said, they were hard up for new people.  They had a 10K hiring bonus too!  But not alot of takers.  I was considering joining, but for the most part didnt want to be driving from place to place and i was already 40+ so i wasnt looking at changing jobs/skills.








    The ears never lie.

    - Don Burt
  • GunNutGunNut Posts: 7,642 Senior Member
    My Father-in-law spent over 40 years in the Iron Working business in New York City.  He started as a steel connector at 17 and took engineering and Architectural classes in college to advance his career but never left the building sites.  He progressed through the ranks as the decades went by, and hands on built and in later years he ran all the steel, welders and crane (they all belong to the same Iron Workers Union) guys in some of the biggest projects in Brooklyn and Manhattan including the JFK Airport International Terminal and the new Hayden Planetarium which opened in 2000.

    He told me the way HUGE project construction works is like this:

    The Architect designs a building/structure and puts his drawings on paper to get engineering modified/approved.

    Then the Engineers laugh for a long time while trying to figure out how to defy the laws of gravity and physical properties of construction materials, and they edit the daylights out of the Architects design into something that can actually be built.

    Then the construction guys (him) calls in the Engineers and shreds their blueprints in front of them editing out everything that is impossible to erect even using the latest equipment, materials and construction methods and changing the timing/plans so the damn thing does not collapse onto itself even while being built.  All the while wondering how the first two ever got through school…. 

    THEN it gets built, while fixing a myriad of other hidden design and engineering flaws along the way…

    And then, the Architects and Engineers take all the credit for the end result…
    Old West Saying: God created men, but Col. Sam Colt made them equal.

    General George Patton:  “Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.”

  • SpkSpk Senior Member Posts: 4,431 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    I was working with a millenial on getting some kind of doodad added on top of an order I was placing for myself.  He asked if I needed cash or could do one of the new-age "my phone talks to your phone" payment methods.

    My response was along the lines of "Buddy. . .I don't DO electronics.  If I could buy a cell phone that was powered by steam, I would"

    His reply:  "Steam?  Is that a new app?"

    Soooooo. . . either something was lost in my delivery, or we have folks today that aren't even aware of the fact that we can boil water in order to apply mechanical force.  
    I'm pretty sure he was being serious, Steam is an app.
    Steam: chat and participate in the Steam community, catch unbeatable Steam sales

    With the free Steam app for Android, you can participate in the Steam community wherever you go. Chat with your Steam friends, browse community groups and user profiles, read the latest gaming news and stay up to date on unbeatable Steam sales.
    I'm guessing, he was just too young to realize you were kidding.
    There's also the Steam Powered Games website.
    Young people live in a different reality than we do. For one thing, I couldn't tell you who's popular on TV or Online right now. Mostly because I don't care 🤣
    I remember growing up my dad would sometimes look at me like I was from a different planet because of my fascination with sci-fi. He would tell me things like, don't believe it... it's all make believe. Then we went to the moon and he never complained again.
    I suspect every generation has that societal/cultural/generational gap. It just seems like that to me anyway.





    Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience -- Mark Twain
    How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain

  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,464 Senior Member
    Spk said:
    And...just because it can be drawn doesn't mean it can be built.

    Mike
    Mike, I have a cool idea for a landscape waterfall, I just need you to build it.
    😁
    I guarantee our Sales Dept would tell you we can do it. Then estimate it'd take me 4 hours to build it. Sometimes I really miss working for a smaller company.....LOL!
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,568 Senior Member
    "Design build" and "To be field verified" are two of the things I do not like seeing.  Just went through this with a JCI tech yesterday.  I told him I needed information to complete the fire alarm install and some things in the engineered drawings didnt really work.  His response was to look at the note that said to verify with NFPA 70 requirements.  Yeah, thats what the engineer is supposed to do, not the guys installing the engineered system.

    No student debt and I have a good paying job with benefits and a pension.  I guess I should have listened to my high school counselor when he said that if I didnt get at least a 4 year degree I would never have any success in life.....
  • RugerFanRugerFan Senior Member Posts: 2,490 Senior Member
    My school district started about 5 yrs ago taking our 8th graders to a nearby community college to tour their academic and trade facilities. We then started taking our 7th and 6th graders to different CC’s. 

    There is now an emphasis on the trades in MS schools. I’ve been pushing the trades to my students for years. 
  • zorbazorba Senior Member Posts: 24,467 Senior Member
    This reminds me of stories my late father - a 45 year IBEW veteran would tell me about the engineers at a certain large gov't installation he worked at for a few years. Engineer would design something that couldn't work - so my dad would go in to talk to them about it. The gist of their response was "Make it work, and make it look heavy duty!"...
    -Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

    "If you get it and didn't work for it, someone else worked for it and didn't get it..."
  • LinefinderLinefinder Moderator Posts: 7,464 Senior Member
    edited May 27 #25
    Almost anything can be built.  But when you specify .005" radiused corners in a pocket thats' governing features are the perpendicular sides.....that tells me someone didn't get much education in reality.

    Unless you're building a mold....where something the size of a shoe box can cost you $100K. THEN......you design stuff like that.

    Mike
    "Walking away seems to be a lost art form."
    N454casull
  • mitdr774mitdr774 Member Posts: 1,568 Senior Member
    I did have an electrical engineer instruct me to connect something up as two pole three phase.  Yeah, thats not possible in any situation.  
  • CHIRO1989CHIRO1989 Senior Member Posts: 13,289 Senior Member
    Bigslug said:
    I was working with a millenial on getting some kind of doodad added on top of an order I was placing for myself.  He asked if I needed cash or could do one of the new-age "my phone talks to your phone" payment methods.

    My response was along the lines of "Buddy. . .I don't DO electronics.  If I could buy a cell phone that was powered by steam, I would"

    His reply:  "Steam?  Is that a new app?"

    Soooooo. . . either something was lost in my delivery, or we have folks today that aren't even aware of the fact that we can boil water in order to apply mechanical force.  
    You obviously need to work on your sarcasm :D
    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn away from their ways and live. Eze 33:11
  • waipapa13waipapa13 Senior Member Posts: 872 Senior Member
    edited May 28 #28
    mitdr774 said:
      Yeah, thats what the engineer is supposed to do, not the guys installing the engineered system.


    I had a similar situation whilst my manager was sitting in on a call.

    Engineer asked if I could work out a total inventory, review the design and work out what needed to be sent. 

    My managers response was "wow, he seems like a really nice guy"

    My response, "he'd want to be, I'm doing his job for him".
  • Make_My_DayMake_My_Day Senior Member Posts: 7,841 Senior Member
    edited May 30 #29
    Today's Universities are too busy propagandizing students with hogwash like "critical race theory" and other garbage to learn about anything useful to the job they are studying for, like picking up a tool or using a machine.
    My 7th and 8th grade school curriculum included shop classes that had everything from learning to weave a pot holder from yarn, to printing, ceramics, wood working and metal working. I consider that to have been some of the most valuable classwork I ever had. That prepared me for the future so I could fix things like my car, motorcycle, and home repair projects.
    Sorry for the political response, but this seems relevant to me.
    JOE MCCARTHY WAS RIGHT:
    THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE NEW COMMUNISTS!
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 421 Member
    From an automotive perspective, any shortage of trade schools is probably a reflection of fewer people being interested in pursuing a career in certain skilled trades.  There is already quite a shortage in North America of people choosing a career in automotive repair, and an abundance of people currently in the trade that are seriously lacking diagnostic skills.  Even more discouraging is that most of them do not even want to learn how to diagnose, they just want someone to tell them which part to replace.  I think the movie 'Idiocracy' was probably not too far off the mark in predicting the future.
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
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