Another reason to not bother with warning shots

bobbyrlf3bobbyrlf3 Senior MemberPosts: 2,465 Senior Member
This man is being charged for firing a warning shot into the ground, and could face similar jail time to the burglar he stopped.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/21/new-hampshire-man-faces-felony-charge-after-firing-gun-into-ground-near-burglar/?test=latestnews
Knowledge is essential to living freely and fully; understanding gives knowledge purpose and strength; wisdom is combining the two and applying them appropriately in words and actions.
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Replies

  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,750 Senior Member
    Why am I not surprised?
    :cuss:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    So if he fire the shots into the burgular would he have been charged with the same crime?

    Is New Hampshire a Castle Doctrine state? I can't find a definite yes or no answer.

    It was his neighbor's home so how does that he caught him coming out of AFTER his home had been robbed. Does that mean anything?

    That little town is going to be full of media from this ... :popcorn:
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I thought discharging a firearm within city or township limits was the usual charge ??? Since no one was actually endangered or injured.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,348 Senior Member
    Aren't all gun rights null and void north of Kentucky?
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Sounds about right, gun rights, common sense, education, decency and a few other things..
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • LMLarsenLMLarsen Senior Member Posts: 8,337 Senior Member
    "Warning" shots are always a bad idea. If the situation merits firing, it should be done at the bad guy. Otherwise, do not fire.
    “A gun is a tool, no better or no worse than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.”

    NRA Endowment Member
  • QuinianQuinian Senior Member Posts: 707 Senior Member
    My "warning shot" comes in the form of you becoming live dog food. After that I doubt there'd be much reason to shoot at all
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Quote about warning shots from the movie Phantasm:

    "Jody: Now, remember: you don't aim a gun at a man unless you intend to shoot him.
    And, you don't shoot a man unless you intend to kill him.
    No warning shots !

    Hey, you listening to me? No warning shots. Warning shots are bull, You shoot to kill, or you don't shoot at all.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • BigslugBigslug Senior Member Posts: 7,003 Senior Member
    So I guess when they say "Live Free or Die" in New Hampshire, what they really mean is those are your only choices?
    WWJMBD?

    "Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    LMLarsen wrote: »
    "Warning" shots are always a bad idea. If the situation merits firing, it should be done at the bad guy. Otherwise, do not fire.

    Precisely stated. I have never seen or read any article or book or other self defense instruction that recommends warning shots.

    I remember one of my self defense instructors saying "The first time the guy knows you're armed is when he sees the muzzle flash. It should also be the last thing he sees." Pretty severe but to the point.

    In the current story, it's possible that local/state law might make it illegal for the guy to have fired at (and hit) someone running away from a burglary, particularly if it was a neighbor's house. So maybe the shooter is getting off light.

    Myself, I would never fire at someone fleeing from a burglary. A rape or assault, maybe, if I were certain of the circumstances. But I think it's very risky, from a legal standpoint, to shoot at someone's retreating back.

    Anyway, regardless, warning shots are not a good idea, ever. LM is perfectly correct -- if firing is warranted, fire at the person. If not, don't fire at all.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    I remember old Sgt. Walter Roskiewoski (sp?) disambiguation ? USMC ret. and P.A. instructor etc etc..... when asked by a greenhorn if a warning shot was ever warranted as a LEO, he roared out, are you ( ) "kidding" me ?

    There are NO WARNING SHOTS, NEVER !!!

    If you have any doubts, that gun should have never left your holster.
    Maybe you are in the wrong job.

    If I had followed all of Walter's advice, I would likely be fertilizer now, many forum members happier, fortunately it was My second incarnation as a LEO, and I just grinned and nodded at what I knew to be BS and remembered to apply the good stuff.

    Good LE training IMHO is second to none, but not everything is gospel, so far several forum members will always sound true.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • tv_racin_fantv_racin_fan Senior Member Posts: 617 Senior Member
    Ya know.. I was of the opinion that I wouldn't attempt to defend my goods if a bad guy wanted them bad enough. I'd defend self and family of course but he could have the television if he could carry the thing. He could have the van if he managed to start it and get out of the drive before the law showed up.

    But I was reading this thing not so long ago about the right to keep n bear arms and the bible.

    The upshot of this article and interview was that according to the bible it is a christian duty to not only defend ones self and ones family but also ones possessions.

    As for a warning shot I can see where I might employ such. Bear a bit close and lookin like he might want to charge me I might shoot into the ground to run him off. Of course IF he is on charge that might be different.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    If you need or see a need to fire a warning shot, just never be dumb enough to confess the blunder, just admit to being a poor shot.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    Laws against discharging weapons in city limits usually geared toward prohibiting people from building home made ranges or shooting in their backyards. Warning shots are closer to unjustified use of deadly force. Whether or not the target was hit is irrelevant, in my non-lawyer opinion. Neither castle doctrine nor "stand your ground" can be use in defense here since neither protects the use of deadly force in defense of someone else properties. NH has both of these laws, and they are strongly in favor of gun owners, but they spelled out justified circumstances pretty clearly (http://law.justia.com/codes/new-hampshire/2010/titlelxii/chapter627/). The closest that NH has in term of protecting properties is related to the actual property owner's properties AND IF someone's life is in danger (probably like a robbery):
    627:8 Use of Force in Property Offenses. – A person is justified in using force upon another when and to the extent that he reasonably believes it necessary to prevent what is or reasonably appears to be an unlawful taking of his property, or criminal mischief, or to retake his property immediately following its taking; but he may use deadly force under such circumstances only in defense of a person as prescribed in RSA 627:4.

    Unless this guy can justify that his life or someone else's life was in danger when he took that shot, he's going to have to deal with the legal consequences.
    DoctorWho wrote: »
    Quote about warning shots from the movie Phantasm:

    "Jody: Now, remember: you don't aim a gun at a man unless you intend to shoot him.
    And, you don't shoot a man unless you intend to kill him.
    No warning shots !

    Hey, you listening to me? No warning shots. Warning shots are bull, You shoot to kill, or you don't shoot at all.

    I don't know Doc, I'm of a mindset to shoot to stop the threat, not shoot to kill. If you deployed your weapon, took 1 shot and the threat is wounded and stopped on his track or limped away, shooting to kill will get you in a heap of legal troubles. A lawyer told me shoot because of something you are willing to go bankrupt or to jail for.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • timctimc Senior Member Posts: 6,624 Senior Member
    I thought warning shots were center mass and serious shooting are head shots
    timc - formerly known as timc on the last G&A forum and timc on the G&A forum before that and the G&A forum before that.....
    AKA: Former Founding Member
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    My warning shots are all fired at the shooting range. If the BGs didn't hear them they weren't paying attention. Oh well.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • KENFU1911KENFU1911 Senior Member Posts: 1,052 Senior Member
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
    Stolen................Ken
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
  • mythaeusmythaeus Senior Member Posts: 831 Senior Member
    My idea of a warning shot is when the 2nd bad guy watches his 1st buddy go down....
    timc wrote: »
    I thought warning shots were center mass and serious shooting are head shots
    My warning shots are all fired at the shooting range. If the BGs didn't hear them they weren't paying attention. Oh well.

    All priceless!!!

    :beer:
    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama
  • samzheresamzhere Banned Posts: 10,923 Senior Member
    The upshot of this article and interview was that according to the bible it is a christian duty to not only defend ones self and ones family but also ones possessions.

    I'd like to see the source for that, chapter and verse. Just curious.

    Outside of a dog, a book is a man’s best friend. Inside of a dog, it’s too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "I don't know Doc, I'm of a mindset to shoot to stop the threat, not shoot to kill. If you deployed your weapon, took 1 shot and the threat is wounded and stopped on his track or limped away, shooting to kill will get you in a heap of legal troubles. A lawyer told me shoot because of something you are willing to go bankrupt or to jail for."

    Al

    You are of course 100 % correct,

    I only quoted the line because I like how it played in the movie.....
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • NCFUBARNCFUBAR Senior Member Posts: 4,324 Senior Member
    They dropped the charge against the homeowner!

    SCORE 1 FOR THE GOOD GUYS and a smart DA!

    http://www.wmur.com/r/30524687/detail.html
    “The further a society drifts from truth ... the more it will hate those who speak it."
    - George Orwell
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Posts: 14,973 Senior Member
    So...do you think he got the guns they confiscated from his house back yet?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    Prolly not.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • ADRidgeADRidge Member Posts: 173 Member
    My take on warning shots... firing a gun at all in that situation is seen as deadly force. Might as well make that deadly force count, right?
    In space no one can hear you scream... but if you put a helicopter up there, some jerk would complain about the noise!
  • OjibahineOjibahine New Member Posts: 25 New Member
    My warning shots are all fired at the shooting range. If the BGs didn't hear them they weren't paying attention. Oh well.

    My warning shot is the one the BG sees just before it hits him between the eyes. :head:
  • BakermanBakerman Member Posts: 382 Member
    New Hampshire.............I didn't remember that it was still a state. Been kinda quiet in the news lately.
    Bakerman formerly known as Bakerman
  • knitepoetknitepoet Senior Member Posts: 18,750 Senior Member
    ADRidge wrote: »
    My take on warning shots... firing a gun at all in that situation is seen as deadly force. Might as well make that deadly force count, right?
    :that:
    Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates, Rule #37: There is no “overkill”. There is only “open fire” and “I need to reload”.


  • ghostsniper1ghostsniper1 Banned Posts: 2,645 Senior Member
    Teach wrote: »
    Aren't all gun rights null and void north of Kentucky?
    Jerry
    Hey hey now. Ohio is pretty fare with the gun laws here.
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    "Hey hey now. Ohio is pretty fare with the gun laws here."

    Hey hey now. Ohio is pretty fair with the gun laws here.


    You pay a fare to get a ride on a Cities transportation service, is this fair ?

    Yes, it costs the City money to run a transportation service.
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
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