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Freezer
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Personal defence weapon for the non-shooter
Freezer
Senior MemberPosts: 2,421 Senior Member
My niece, who lives in a city, had a prowler on her front porch. She called her dad who did just as I would have and installed more motion detector lights on the house. She has and uses an alarm system but was asking about a firearm. My first suggestion was a big sharp knife next to her bed where she could grab it if someone tried to climb in with her. I gave her a sharp K Bar. My next suggestion was to go to a range, rent some hand guns, find something she likes, then take HD classes.
One person suggested an AR pistol in 9mm with a 30 round mag, he's not talking to me now because I disagreed. Another suggested a shotgun, I sort of like the idea and a 20 gauge Mossberg or Maverick would fit the bill, but I doubt she'd ever practice or shoot it. I asked her feeling about guns and she ok with them but admitted the AR and bull pups intimidate her. She has no place to use a shotgun.
I'm sure she won't like heavy recoil or pistols that bite. I can't see her wanting to spend more than $350 for a SD gun. That brought me to the thought of a 380 acp. The only affordable pistols are the Ruger LCP and Bersa Thunder. Taurus has a 38 revolver in her price range, but it's a Taurus!
I've shot the Bersa 380 and found it serviceable with low recoil, any opinions on it? What opinions do you have on the Taurus 586 in 38 spl?
For someone who's not a gun enthusiast, should she have a revolver, pistol or shotgun? I've heard tails of springs weakening in pistols. Is there any truth to the myth?
One person suggested an AR pistol in 9mm with a 30 round mag, he's not talking to me now because I disagreed. Another suggested a shotgun, I sort of like the idea and a 20 gauge Mossberg or Maverick would fit the bill, but I doubt she'd ever practice or shoot it. I asked her feeling about guns and she ok with them but admitted the AR and bull pups intimidate her. She has no place to use a shotgun.
I'm sure she won't like heavy recoil or pistols that bite. I can't see her wanting to spend more than $350 for a SD gun. That brought me to the thought of a 380 acp. The only affordable pistols are the Ruger LCP and Bersa Thunder. Taurus has a 38 revolver in her price range, but it's a Taurus!
I've shot the Bersa 380 and found it serviceable with low recoil, any opinions on it? What opinions do you have on the Taurus 586 in 38 spl?
For someone who's not a gun enthusiast, should she have a revolver, pistol or shotgun? I've heard tails of springs weakening in pistols. Is there any truth to the myth?
I like Elmer Keith; I married his daughter 
Replies
Wifes carry gun is a SW 431 PD 32 H&R Mag.
SCCY makes an easy to use 9mm.
Ruger LC9 deserves a look.
When she left home, she chose my old S&W 3" Model 66...after she got a deal on a nice older Model 19....(the 66 came home)
Though capable with pretty much any handgun, she chose to stick with a revolver for a bedside gun...and I find no fault in her decision...
The thought of a shotgun isn't a bad one either...however, she needs to be able to familiarize herself with it..(that goes for any firearm she chooses)..and not let some gun shop expert talk her into buying a shotgun with a pistol grip....
I think one of the worst mistakes the new/intimidated shooter can make is to go with the small, pocket caliber autos. They're also inaccurate in untrained hands, and in the blowback mechanisms, pretty snappy. The rounds are effective IF delivered accurately (see previous sentence). The choice for one is usually made because they're small and non-intimidating.
That intimidation comes from ignorance. Purging that with some familiarization is the first hurdle.
(BTW, if she's intimidated by the look of certain guns, she'll likely need A LOT of mental re-wiring before your Ka-Bar concept would become even remotely helpful. That stuff takes training and WILL)
A 4" revolver loaded with .38's is a simple-to-operate choice, but you'll need some good coaching on running a DA trigger to be effective with one.
An autoloader is a recoil-driven machine that needs to be held properly to run reliably, and it needs to be somewhat understood to be operated safely.
ANY handgun is hard to shoot accurately if you don't put in the work. Even if you do, a handgun is a weapon of convenience for distances you'd be smart to stay beyond, and only the foolish would fight with one where a long gun is an available choice.
A pump shotgun stored with the chamber empty, trigger pulled, and safety off is about as simple and safe, AND effective a combo as the little-trained can hope for. Easy to sight for the distances expected, and since it's a manual action, you're unlikely to catastrophically screw up more than once. That said, once you get to the point of needing to load, unload, or reload, a lot of people seem to be mystified by them.
A 9mm carbine with a long-battery life red-dot (Ruger and a solar-backup Holosun come to mind) is potentially VERY effective, easy and gentle to shoot, and potentially interchangeable with Glock mags (the Glock in itself being a pretty easy auto to run with minimal things to remember). Like the shotgun, if stored empty chamber and safety off, one needs to only remember the charging handle.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
Truth is that having a firearm that you don't like to shoot and don't want to practice with does not provide much in the way of real security and might make a bad situation worse.
A Chihuahua would be better in that scenario.
If one does not put in the time and effort to train to use a tool to stop a threat in its tracks, it might be better to focus on early warning and a secure barricade or escape plan.
What are your opinions on the Taurus revolvers?
I'm still open to talking to her about a pump shotgun. The finial decision is hers.
She has an English bulldog and a security system, the K Bar is peace of mind and IMHO easy to deploy if your already face to face.
-Mikhail Kalashnikov
A single projectile fired at an intruder at close range by a person who doesn't practice much and has little training.... the AR pistol may have an advantage over a pistol or revolver. With two hands and a shoulder (brace) you have more control and very light recoil. They are easy to charge. I just don't like the idea of sending a pistol round down range in a city dwelling. Too great a chance for collateral damage when she misses.
A 410 pump with 000 buck makes more sense.
I don't think they make what I'd suggest. Mossberg 510 Bantam with an 18.5 in 410 barrel and ATI tactical adjustable stock. Fixed full choke should be fine, but Accu-choke would permit patterning. The Bantam's forend is set up for a shorter grip. A grip strap would make it perfect.
I don't care for flashlights and laser pointers as it only announces you're there.
I would also advise avoiding a .410....a 20 gauge will be a better choice and much more economical to practice with....
https://www.centerfireguns.com/ati-g410bdb-bull-dog-410-16in-bullpup-5rd-atig410bdb.html
https://www.extarusa.com/shop/pistols/ep9
i put this Foxtrot Mike upper and palmetto lower together for about $575
The new MKIV is about a perfect place to start for a new shooter, and there are the "Tactical" versions that could take a red dot and a light if so desired.
Is it what WE would choose for ourselves? Nope. But it is the best way to develop skills somewhat cheaply and without all the noise and recoil that turn many noobs off.
Personally, I'd find a volleyball-sized cluster of Mini Mags in my chest fairly discouraging.
I think that would qualify as "training wheels" that would serve the need.
"Nothing is safe from stupid." - Zee
That said, for her home defense weapon I bought her a Mossberg 500 in .410 that can accept 3" shells. The stock barrel length was 24" and was a full choke. As another mentioned earlier, a shotgun will not have much spread at a typical inside the home distance at which an intruder might need to be engaged.
I had a gunsmith shorten the barrel to 18.5" - it is now effectively a cylinder choke but not an illegal length shotgun. #4 buckshot has nine pellets in a 3" shell, and at 15 feet my wife can blow a 1 gallon jug to hell and back consistently. I have her practice swinging the gun up and onto a target with her laying on a cot while she starts off covered with a blanket and the gun propped next to the cot (it comes in pretty handy having a backyard range). A shotgun with a pistol grip or box magazine risks hanging up on clothing or bedcovers. They look cool as hell, but were not designed to be used under the conditions in which a surprised response to a home invasion is most probable. An autoloader pistol risks hanging up the slide if it encounters bedding or clothing during use, and a pistol being employed from a prone position where the target is likely to be more toward the foot of the bed risks muzzling and potentially shooting your own lower extremities.
The pump shotgun is about as simple as it gets to run, and in .410 even if you don't get the butt into your shoulder the recoil is manageable - she can still work the gun and get a follow up shot.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record (or the south end of a north-bound mule) any firearm will not be a protective panacea for someone who is uncomfortable handling them and unwilling to train - really train - with one. Whenever I am asked about which gun or caliber is best to use for self defense, my answer is the one you are willing to train with, diligently, and not something that you only take to the range once or twice on a nice sunny day and shoot paper targets from a single, fixed position.
I would suggest a short barrel 12ga semi auto. The difference in recoil vs 20ga is not much and there is at least 1/8 oz more pellets. There will also be less recoil with the auto and no chance of a short stroke when things are dicey. The second item would be a light with a momentary switch positioned at the grip or on the fore stock so no futzing is needed and pellets hit where the light shines. N0 4 buck might be the ideal load and not over penetrate. Finally it doesn’t get more intimidating than viewing a shotgun barrel on at eye level.
How easy it is to make people believe a lie, and [how] hard it is to undo that work again! -- Mark Twain