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NICS Denial Notification Act of 2021

Is this a forbidden subject for discussion here?

Replies

  • ZeeZee Senior Member Posts: 27,946 Senior Member

    "To Hell with efficiency, it's performance we want!" - Elmer Keith
  • Diver43Diver43 Senior Member Between Ft Lauderdale and MiamiPosts: 12,461 Senior Member
    Don't know much about it, what is it?
    Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited February 10 #4
    Diver43 said:
    Don't know much about it, what is it?
    This is why I'm a member of GOA. They notify me about such things via email. The government and gun-grabbing media does a bunch of sneaky stuff with "feel-good" headings like "Women Against Violence Act" (which actually strips women of self-defense gun rights), but with Gun Owners of America as my pro-gun watchdog, none of this stuff ever slips past me. I had made a thread about this the other day and it got deleted somehow. In short, it's a highly anti-gun bill. You can read about it at this following link: 

    https://www.gunowners.org/na02082022/
  • bullsi1911bullsi1911 Moderator Posts: 12,255 Senior Member
    My reply as a Moderator:  There are no forbidden subjects.  If you read the rules, you can state your beliefs on anything that is not illegal.  Debates are forbidden on religion and abortion.  That is just because you will never change anyone’s mind, and you will just start fights.

    My reply as a member who is growing tired of your trolling:  Can you show me on the doll where the Guns&Ammo Forum hurt you?
    To make something simple is a thousand times more difficult than to make something complex.
    -Mikhail Kalashnikov
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    Anyway, now we have this clear, does anyone here want to chime in on what they think of this bill. I have taken action and told my US Senators "NO" to this bill. This topic has to do with American gun rights: not me personally. No fights are being picked by me here. If you happen to support this bill, I won't argue against you. Scouts honor. 
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    edited February 10 #7
    Summation of the bill: if the NICS background check is flagged, it requires the feds to report to state and local authorities that someone who's prohibited tried to buy a firearm. Those authorities may then decide to pursue investigation and possible prosecution. If a prosecution occurs, creates a database and requires a report to Congress of those prosecuted.

    Here's a link to the actual text.
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/675/text

    I'm just here for snark.
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 613 Senior Member
    Summation of the bill: if the NICS background check is flagged, it requires the feds to report to state and local authorities that someone who's prohibited tried to buy a firearm. Those authorities may then decide to pursue investigation and possible prosecution. If a prosecution occurs, creates a database and requires a report to Congress of those prosecuted.

    Here's a link to the actual text.
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/675/text

    If I read the text correctly, it also states that a report to Congress is also required to be made to document the number of denials that were subsequently over-turned.  Might be a way to better keep track of the efficacy of the NICS system - report how many persons were initially denied, how many prosecutions for attempts to purchase a firearm by a prohibited person were made as well as document how many of those denied were found to have been denied in error.

    “(c) Amendment Of Report.—If a report is made in accordance with this subsection and, after such report is made
    the Federal Bureau of Investigation or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives determines that the 
    receipt of a firearm by a person for whom the report was made would not violate subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of this title or State law, 
    the Attorney General shall, in accordance with subsection (b), notify any law enforcement authority and any prosecutor to whom the report was made of that determination.

    § 925C. Annual report to Congress

    “Not later than 1 year after the date of enactment of this section, and annually thereafter, the Attorney General shall submit to Congress a report detailing the following, broken down by Federal judicial district:

    “(1) With respect to each category of persons prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of this title or State law from receiving or possessing a firearm who are so denied a firearm—

    “(A) the number of denials;

    “(B) the number of denials referred to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives;

    “(C) the number of denials for which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives determines that the person denied was not prohibited by subsection (g) or (n) of section 922 of this title or State law from receiving or possessing a firearm;

    “(D) the number of denials overturned through the national instant criminal background check system appeals process and the reasons for overturning the denials;

    “(E) the number of denials with respect to which an investigation was opened by a field division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives;

    “(F) the number of persons charged with a Federal criminal offense in connection with a denial; and

    “(G) the number of convictions obtained by Federal authorities in connection with a denial.


    Seems to me that right now one group (the FBI) likes to tout how effective the NICS is, other groups like to tout how ineffective it is. 
    Might be worth having an official report detailing the actual effectiveness or ineffectiveness of the system.  
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    I was hoping someone would bother to read the text and see what the bill actually said...
    I'm just here for snark.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,229 Senior Member
    edited February 11 #10
    Diver43 said:
    Don't know much about it, what is it?
    This is why I'm a member of GOA. They notify me about such things via email. The government and gun-grabbing media does a bunch of sneaky stuff with "feel-good" headings like "Women Against Violence Act" (which actually strips women of self-defense gun rights), but with Gun Owners of America as my pro-gun watchdog, none of this stuff ever slips past me. I had made a thread about this the other day and it got deleted somehow. In short, it's a highly anti-gun bill. You can read about it at this following link: 

    https://www.gunowners.org/na02082022/

    So....did you actually read and comprehend the bill or did you just post some random GOA propaganda?
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited February 11 #11
    Jayhawker said:
    Diver43 said:
    Don't know much about it, what is it?
    This is why I'm a member of GOA. They notify me about such things via email. The government and gun-grabbing media does a bunch of sneaky stuff with "feel-good" headings like "Women Against Violence Act" (which actually strips women of self-defense gun rights), but with Gun Owners of America as my pro-gun watchdog, none of this stuff ever slips past me. I had made a thread about this the other day and it got deleted somehow. In short, it's a highly anti-gun bill. You can read about it at this following link: 

    https://www.gunowners.org/na02082022/

    So....did you actually read and comprehend the bill or did you just post some random GOA propaganda?
    No, GOA emailed me a letter. I'm not an attorney. I don't understand lawyer-speak. I only read what GOA had to say. If GOA says it's a bad bill and that it should be opposed, I believe them. I trust GOA. Have you read the GOA link I have posted? 

    Furthermore, I'm in favor of the disbanding of the ATF. Like Ron Paul, I favor the abolition of the Gun Control Act of 1968. To boot, I favor the abolition of the Brady Bill, the NICS system and the National Firearms Act of 1934. 

    I have not seen a single atom of evidence that any innocent person was ever protected just once by any of these gun control measures. The Gun Control Act of 1968 was signed in by a nincompoop named Lyndon B. Johnson and rose purely out of illogical emotions in the 1960's regarding the King killing and the assassination of two Kennedy brothers. Do you think for one moment that a NICS denial would have otherwise saved JFK's life back then? For all I know, Lee Harvey Oswald would have easily passed that check. 
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 613 Senior Member
    Diver43 said:
    Don't know much about it, what is it?
    This is why I'm a member of GOA. They notify me about such things via email. The government and gun-grabbing media does a bunch of sneaky stuff with "feel-good" headings like "Women Against Violence Act" (which actually strips women of self-defense gun rights), but with Gun Owners of America as my pro-gun watchdog, none of this stuff ever slips past me. I had made a thread about this the other day and it got deleted somehow. In short, it's a highly anti-gun bill. You can read about it at this following link: 

    https://www.gunowners.org/na02082022/
    Jayhawker said:
    Diver43 said:
    Don't know much about it, what is it?
    This is why I'm a member of GOA. They notify me about such things via email. 

     ....In short, it's a highly anti-gun bill....

    You can read about it at this following link: 

    https://www.gunowners.org/na02082022/

    So....did you actually read and comprehend the bill or did you just post some random GOA propaganda?
    No, GOA emailed me a letter. I'm not an attorney. I don't understand lawyer-speak. I only read what GOA had to say. If GOA says it's a bad bill and that it should be opposed, I believe them. I trust GOA. Have you read the GOA link I have posted? 


    I don't think you even read the GOA link that you posted.  Nowhere in the article for that link does it state that S.675 is "a Highly Anti-Gun Bill". 

    The GOA link that you posted indicates that the author of that link believes that the bill will result in Criminal Investigations into tens of thousands of Law Abiding Americans who were falsely denied a gun purchase due to a broken back-ground check system.

    So the GOA believes that the NICS is broken.  Fair enough.  What would be wrong with a Bill being enacted that would potentially identify just how badly broken NICS is?  The Bill does not say that innocent people people falsely denied would be prosecuted for a crime they did not commit.  What it does say is that, if enacted, the Attorney General would be required to officially report what NICS did right and what NICS did wrong. 

    That outcome might be better than continuing to engage in 'He Said / She Said' rhetoric with both sides throwing unsubstantiated statistics around.

    Burroughs85, if you actually had any credibility left going in, posting "I only Read What GOA had to Say" is a great way to completely destroy any vestige of remaining credibility that you may have had.  
    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    I don't know then. 

  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,229 Senior Member
    You don't need to be a lawyer to read (and comprehend) a bill. Just interested in getting ALL THE FACTS before you go parroting one person's opinion as gospel on the internet....


    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    edited February 11 #15
    Taken directly from the GOA link:

    The NICS Denial Notification Act would open criminal investigations into 100% of background check denials, even though government studies show 9 out of 10 times these denials are false positives.

    Passage of this language would result in criminal investigations into TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent law-abiding Americans for the non-crime of being denied a gun purchase by a broken background check system each year.


    that's actually a bit of a misrepresentation of the bill, at least according to my reading.  The act could open up investigations.  Not would.  There's a distinction.  

    But, fear's a powerful motivating factor.

    I'm just here for snark.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,229 Senior Member
    edited February 11 #16
    Taken directly from the GOA link:

    The NICS Denial Notification Act would open criminal investigations into 100% of background check denials, even though government studies show 9 out of 10 times these denials are false positives.

    Passage of this language would result in criminal investigations into TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent law-abiding Americans for the non-crime of being denied a gun purchase by a broken background check system each year.


    that's actually a bit of a misrepresentation of the bill, at least according to my reading.  The act could open up investigations.  Not would.  There's a distinction.  

    But, fear's a powerful motivating factor.

    Makes sense since fear (real or imagined) appears to be the motivating factor in the OPs life....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    edited February 11 #17
    Jayhawker said:
    Taken directly from the GOA link:

    The NICS Denial Notification Act would open criminal investigations into 100% of background check denials, even though government studies show 9 out of 10 times these denials are false positives.

    Passage of this language would result in criminal investigations into TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent law-abiding Americans for the non-crime of being denied a gun purchase by a broken background check system each year.


    that's actually a bit of a misrepresentation of the bill, at least according to my reading.  The act could open up investigations.  Not would.  There's a distinction.  

    But, fear's a powerful motivating factor.

    Makes sense since fear (real or imagined) appears to be the motivating factor in the OPs life....
    Well, to be fair, I've never gotten an email or letter from the NRA requesting me to act now or send money because things are going just fine.....
    I'm just here for snark.
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,229 Senior Member
    This is true...I rarely take any "call for action" from any organization at face value...The skeptic in me needs to investigate further before I decide to give it a moment of my valuable time....
    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 613 Senior Member
    Doveryai, no proveryai

    or ”trust, but verify,” the Russian proverb made famous by former US President Ronald Reagan, means that a responsible person always verifies everything before committing themselves to a common business with anyone, even if the other party seems completely trustworthy.

    An intelligent discussion of NICS should entail asking if the system has prevented persons who cannot legally own or possess a firearm from LEGALLY receiving one (YES),
    has the system prevented persons disallowed from legally purchasing a firearm also prevented that same person from illegally obtaining a firearm at a later date from an illegal source? (NO),
    has the system prevented persons who should not have been prevented from receiving a firearm (YES),
    has the system failed to identify persons who should have been prevented from receiving a firearm (YES),
    have persons who were erroneously prevented from receiving or possessing a firearm been made whole (allowed to purchase and possess) after the mistake was identified and corrected?  (YES)





    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited February 11 #20
    Has NICS ever saved the life of an innocent person? not that I know of 

    Has NICS ever wrongfully cost the life or limb of an innocent person due to barring a legitimate gun purchase for self-defense? POSSIBLY

    I will humbly say I believe that NICS has done much more harm to the innocent than good. 

    Do I care if a convicted car thief (a felon) who has paid his debts, has an honest job and turned his life around obtains a gun to defend his wife and children. NO 
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    Taken directly from the GOA link:

    The NICS Denial Notification Act would open criminal investigations into 100% of background check denials, even though government studies show 9 out of 10 times these denials are false positives.

    Passage of this language would result in criminal investigations into TENS OF THOUSANDS of innocent law-abiding Americans for the non-crime of being denied a gun purchase by a broken background check system each year.


    that's actually a bit of a misrepresentation of the bill, at least according to my reading.  The act could open up investigations.  Not would.  There's a distinction.  

    But, fear's a powerful motivating factor.

    The fact that it COULD is enough for some people to not want to support it anyway. 
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    Settle down, Zira.  
    I'm just here for snark.
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited February 11 #23
    Settle down, Zira.  
    Was that face of mine Doctor Zira? I thought it was Cornelius. I've just changed it from Kim Hunter's to Roddy McDowall's. What a handsome intelligent primate! 
  • JayhawkerJayhawker Moderator Manistee Natl ForestPosts: 18,229 Senior Member
    edited February 11 #24
    Has NICS ever saved the life of an innocent person? not that I know of 

    Did you do any research before making this claim? Or, did you just pull it out of your fourth point of contact?


    Sharps Model 1874 - "The rifle that made the west safe for Winchester"
  • Wambli SkaWambli Ska Posts: 4,142 Senior Member
    Actually, I remember reading the number of denials because of NICS checks being rather high (like 6 figures a year), and immediately wondering, HEY, it's a crime for a felon to try to buy a gun.  For the ones they got right and deny the purchase, is ANYONE prosecuting them?  And I believe the answer is no.  MAYBE they are actually going to fix THAT little problem...

    It’s a °IIIII° thing 😎

  • Some_MookSome_Mook Posts: 613 Senior Member
    I would hope that they also are going to try and fix the little problem of straw purchases as well, since that has been just as illegal an act as a prohibited person attempting to obtain a firearm for themselves is.


    "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." - Thomas Paine
    "I know my place in the world and it ain’t standing next to Jerry Miculek" - Zee
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Living in a van, down by the river.Posts: 13,993 Senior Member
    Settle down, Zira.  
    Was that face of mine Doctor Zira? I thought it was Cornelius. I've just changed it from Kim Hunter's to Roddy McDowall's. What a handsome intelligent primate! 
    Everyone needs a role model.
    I'm just here for snark.
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    Jayhawker said:
    Has NICS ever saved the life of an innocent person? not that I know of 

    Did you do any research before making this claim? Or, did you just pull it out of your fourth point of contact?


    I found nothing on Google about the life-saving ability of NICS. I was asking a question anyway. 
  • burroughs85burroughs85 Posts: 168 Member
    edited February 12 #29
    Actually, I remember reading the number of denials because of NICS checks being rather high (like 6 figures a year), and immediately wondering, HEY, it's a crime for a felon to try to buy a gun.  For the ones they got right and deny the purchase, is ANYONE prosecuting them?  And I believe the answer is no.  MAYBE they are actually going to fix THAT little problem...
    I don't see any problem at all with gun ownership by one who has paid their debts to society in full and is lawfully out on the streets. The ultimate fix would be to shred the Gun Control Act of 1968 for good. Anybody who favors the existence of or any part of the existence of the Gun Control Act of 1968 is an anti-gunner. 

    Those non-felons who were denied still suffered the hassle of being denied in the first place. It seems like this bill might introduce even more potential hassles to gun buyers. I don't like to be hassled over exercising my 2nd A right. I don't like paying FEES for NICS checks and being bothered with filling out paperwork or typing stuff into a laptop at the gun shop, period. 

    If I were to have my way, gun buying would be purely cash-and-carry as it was before the Gun Control Act of 1968. 
  • Elk creekElk creek Senior Member Colorado!Posts: 7,623 Senior Member
    Reading beyond an 8th grade level is hard, so hard in fact that most people just don’t try. So they relay on others to spoon feed them the “facts” of things…..
     

    Aim higher, or get a bigger gun.
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