Home Main Category General Firearms

Decent weekend before last

VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior MemberPosts: 8,059 Senior Member
Started out pretty well with a team match on Fri. We only had 3 shooters on the pickup team and none of us were real confident on calling wind. Offhand started OK, then chased the reticle into the 5 ring. That didnt help a lot. Felt great in sitting and rapid prone. I was watching mirage and turning knobs and hammering in 600. On the scope, on the gun, back on the scope then check the value. Mirage was fishtailing +8 clicks to -5 about every two minuets. Shot 13, I rolled in on the gun and squeezed one off.... on the target to the left...... Nice thing about the match was there was a really good coach on my left.  I was calling my own wind, but when he yelled STOP to his shooter, I stopped and watched the mirage. I wasnt able to figure out what all he was calling, but I caught some of it.

800 on Sat was better offhand, but for some reason I got squirrly in rfp. Both groups went high and low out of the 10 ring. I need to figure that out. 600 was about 0-8 clicks mostly from the right but it picked up quick, thus the 7. Only call I missed badly.

EIC on sun was ok, just OK. Standing was going well until I started doing the math and figured I had a 93-94 in the bag, then walked a 7 out. Sitting was OK, RFP, wind call was good, but I was high and low again. Has to be shoulder position and head. I was dead on for the last shot. 600 was hard. Wind acll for the first shot was not enough, then I compounded it by rolling on more in the wrong direction. Pulled it back the same amount I figured, X2, and went to work. It was work. Fishtailing more than Fri, long boil periods, quick changes. It would change to a boil OR the other direction in the time I came off the scope to when I took up the trigger. I got caught badly on the first string, then started shooting faster.

2 legs, 1 was 483, 2 was 478. Within my ability, not that day.
It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.

Replies

  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,836 Senior Member
    The first thing I noticed was the error on your card in the 4th picture.   The second string score was 97, not 87.  Does that make a difference? 

    Yeah, shooting team is better either a dedicated coach, but even if none of you feel up to the task of wibd coach, you can at least help each other out.  When you shoot, you can have a team mate watch the flags and call out if something changes,  just talking back and forth can yield great results.   That's how I started coaching.   It was in a two man team and we helped each other out and won state matches for 2 man teams for a couple of years before building a 4 man team.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,059 Senior Member
    The error was putting the 13th shot on target 3, not 4. Math was correct. I was getting excited because what I was seeing I was able to transfer to what I was doing and that was translating into good numbers.
    The wind shifts were quick. If you took time getting off the scope and ease into the gun, the wind was 6 clicks in a different direction. It was a real good day to have a good NPA and the scope real close.
    In general, the general consensus of people who shot that relay was it wasnt fun.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,836 Senior Member
    LOL.  I know I'm getting old.  I only counted the 9s.  I didn't realize the crossfire.  Something you don't forget when you're there shooting or scoring. 

    Yep, when the wind shifts quickly it's tough to get any kind if decent score.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,059 Senior Member
    Dont worry, I like your math better
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,276 Senior Member
    The quick math I did put you in @ 96 Percentile, even with a cross fire, in the X-C match which I believe is a upper range Expert score. 

    Cross fires hurt, but you appeared to put it behind you, & recovered nicely.

    The leg match, while I realize you are chasing EIC/leg points, your score was in the 94.4 percentile, with no sighters, standing to position, and so on, again another solid Expert score. 

    If you are a Master or High Master, well rats, wasn't your day.

    If still a raising star, Bravo Sir, nice shootin'.
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,059 Senior Member
    Master as of this spring.
    I have a habit of bracketing brilliance with some dumb moves, but on avg, it is getting better. Thus the clean 2 and 3 when it didnt really matter and dropping 8 when it matters.
    Master is a 95 avg XTC.

    Oh I am ok with how I shot at 600. For the first time I think I am really reading wind. I have a ways to go but IF I twist the knobs correctly, my calls are landing me in the 10 ring for the most part.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,836 Senior Member
    edited June 26 #8
    Dont worry, I like your math better
    Crossfires are evil.

    Several years back at the Nationals, we had clinched second place in the first match of teams championships.  During the second match, one of our guys crossfired and put an X on the target next to ours.  I was calling wind for the team and I saw the trace and my heart sank. That one shot cost us 2 medals; second place in match #2 and second place in aggregate.  Bummer.
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,059 Senior Member
    And they are easy. It seems pretty simple. You are just laying there right? Its easy, all you have to do is do everything right in changing conditions.... all the time... every time... I am a bear of little brain anyway and I keep adding things to think about. When I catch all of them, I can do this stuff pretty well.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,836 Senior Member
    And they are easy. (sip)
    Truer words have never been spoken.

    It's even more "easier" when you're shooting at etargets, as you don't even have the spotter for the last shot as a hint that you're about to lose 10 points.
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,276 Senior Member
    Master as of this spring.

    My apologies, I was recalling percentages from memory, which is marginal at best.

     

    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,545 Senior Member
    The main thing is, you are out there doing it.  You are learning, improving, and having fun-Life is Good!
    Thanks for the updates.
    E
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,059 Senior Member
    edited July 1 #13
    I update because I know there are guys who have done it on here a lot and some who have done it occasionally and I will take any opinions on getting better.
    There are probably a few who read these who think the AR is a spray and pray toy. I converted a coworker who was like that and now his wife is checking boxes that come to the door and his father, brother and he have become a team to get parts for each other.

    Some who think hitting anything at 600 is way beyond the rifle or their ability. Well, it is. Until you do it. "Whether you think you can or cant, you're right" Distance is easy, its just math that you dont even have to do anymore because of the interwebs. Windage is witchcraft.
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,545 Senior Member
    Well said.
    The 6" between our ears is one of our biggest problems...But there is no way a AR platform can shoot to 600 yards or beyond B)o:)
    I helped out a guy from church this week, shoot further than he ever has before.  He made some really good hits too.  He shot his 6.8 Western (I did too) and his 6.5 Creed.  Worked on some fundamentals, explained how to use his turrets, and to adjust for parallax.  Shooting distance well (with the exception of wind plus terrain) was not so intimidating/impossible after his shooting session.
    I made sure his Eliminator III was programmed correctly for his 6.8 out to 765 yards (That is when I was shooting, as he had limited ammunition) and then he shot my center-grip 22GT, and then his 6.5 Creed, that he didn't have any dope for.  I guesstimated, and he was shocked that I could do that, plus the wind calls.  We made it out to 1K with the 6.5 Creed, but ran out of ammo before he hit it.  He is now contemplating reloading as well, as shooting steel at distance is FUN!
    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,059 Senior Member
    I keep thinking about rolling in with the 1000 yd group. The invited me when I was early once. Now that I have plenty of the 80.5gr I might sling up. A lot of the guys who are shooting ARs at 1k are using an 85....

    Hmmm, looks like 16 MOA up from my 600 dope.... and it would still be supersonic..... Yeah, I need more to think about...
    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • Ernie BishopErnie Bishop Senior Member Posts: 8,545 Senior Member
    edited July 1 #16
    Do It!

    Do It Jewish GIF



    Ernie

    "The Un-Tactical"
  • 41magnut41magnut Senior Member Posts: 1,276 Senior Member
    You never know until the attempt is made.

    I'm willing to bet you will be surprised. 

    The more I read about the exterior ballistics, and see the performance, of the newer designs of bullets, the more amazed I become. I've had to rethink many of my long held positions.

    When I attend matches with more than just a few sling shooters, I'm seeing more people showing up with 223R cambered Palma rifles. Granted, the rifles are purpose built bolt guns, but I do notice a trend.

    On paper at least, the 223 with an appropriate bullet isn't giving up anything (i.e. velocity retention & wind drift) to the 308W 155 grain, rifles.

    Give it a go, and report back. We would enjoy hearing about the results.

     
      
    "The .30-06 is never a mistake." Townsend Whelen :iwo:
  • VarmintmistVarmintmist Senior Member Posts: 8,059 Senior Member
    This chart is real close to what I see in real life. I am up 12 exactly (save head or tail wind) from 200 at 600. I put in 1mph full value wind for estimating purposes.

    So up 16.25 MOA and 1 MOA for every mph full value wind.
    Yeah, doable

    It's boring, and your lack of creativity knows no bounds.
  • PegasusPegasus Senior Member Posts: 2,836 Senior Member
    edited July 3 #19
    When I first started in F-Class (F-TR), I used an AR-15 because I was so familiar with them from my time in Service Rifle competition.  When I started shooting at 1000 yards, I started with the 75 A-Max.  I could stay supersonic (barely) in summertime when it was hot and humid, but in Houston wintertime, the bullets fell out of warp regardless of what I tried.  This was with a 24-inch barrel, 1:8 twist.  I moved to the 80gr JLK, moly coated the bullets, used a CWS from Tubb in my bolt carrier.  I was also putting in 25.5gr of Varget in the case.

    When the NRA sanctioned F-Class and issued the tiny targets, I tried one last thing with the AR, and that was a Krieger barrel, 26 inches and 1:7.7 twist with the ling leade.  I spoke with several well-known AR builders at the time and they all agreed I was pushing the limits of the AR-15 platform in .223 caliber.

    The rifle is a phenomenal shooter at 600 yards and I made High Master in mid-range with it, but in 1000 yards (LR), the best I could achieve was sharpshooter.  After a while, I switched to a .308 bolt and within a few months, I had achieved Master for LR.

    I realize the F-class target is 1/4 the size of the regular LR target.  I also remember the first ever LR clean achieved in Service Rifle was done with an AR-15 in 1999 (IIRC).  So, the .223/5.56 does go the distance but I am here to tell you 2 things:

    1- Regardless of what the paper says, even with the same ballistic coefficient, there IS still a difference in the wind drift between a .308 and a .223.

    2- And even more important:  The transonic area in between Mach 0.95 and Mach 1.20.  If your bullets are coming into the target in that range, you are going to be dealing with continual frustration.  When I develop a load for my 1000-yard rifle, my minimum acceptable velocity at the target is Mach 1.25 in the coldest day I will compete in, at sea level.   My current loads are all above Mach 1.30 and those are verified by the ShotMarker system, with current velocities above 1450FPS.

    The Palma and F-Class rifles all depend on a 30+ inch barrel to get the highest possible MV.  Putting one of those on an AR platform was not worthile, even with a CWS and heavy inserts.  Go bolt or go home.

    Now, the AMU produces AR-15s with 20-inch barrels for the 1000-yard course.  But the brass is a one-time use, and they have armorers that support the rifles constantly.  That and the fact they are insane.
Sign In or Register to comment.
Magazine Cover

GET THE MAGAZINE Subscribe & Save

Temporary Price Reduction

SUBSCRIBE NOW

Give a Gift   |   Subscriber Services

PREVIEW THIS MONTH'S ISSUE

GET THE NEWSLETTER Join the List and Never Miss a Thing.

Get the top Guns & Ammo stories delivered right to your inbox every week.

Advertisement