Is there more to the Zimmerman case than we thought?

shotgunshooter3shotgunshooter3 Senior MemberPosts: 5,379 Senior Member
Last I checked in to the thread about the Zimmerman case (neighborhood watch member shoots unarmed 17 year old black "man") most people seemed to be drawing the conclusion that it was an act of Racism and Zimmerman acted well outside of the boundaries of his position.

Here is another view on the case, and it is now making a comparison to the Duke Lacross case of 2006. It basically shows the man who was shot in a different light than the media originally portrayed. Interesting read:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/trayvon-martin-shooting-details-emerge-facebook-twitter-accounts-180103647.html
- I am a rifleman with a poorly chosen screen name. -
"It's far easier to start out learning to be precise and then speeding up, than it is having never "mastered" the weapon, and trying to be precise." - Dan C

Replies

  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,482 Senior Member
    I think you're on to something, Matt. Details are starting to come out that paint a different picture than initially presented. It just might be that the Sanford PD is doing the right thing, much to the chagrin of the mainstream media, as well as race baiters like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the Black Panthers. Hopefully, whatever the truth is will come out and justice will be served.

    When I first heard the 911 tapes, I had the impression that Zimmerman was in his case when he made the call and the dispatcher told him not to follow. Now, I'm not so sure. If he was following Trayvon on foot, called on his cell, was returning to his vehical AND Trayvon attacked him, it's an entirely different situation. At this point, though, I really don't know what happened.

    It's also a shame that the media and so-called civil rights leaders like Sharpton and Jackson don't get upset over black on black crime, but just about bust a gut when it's white on black. It's a dangerous double standard, and does more harm to minorities than good. All my humble opinion, of course, but that's the way I see it.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,263 Senior Member
    It's looking a lot more like a wannabe gangbanger with a history of petty crime and drug use deciced to escalate a confrontation into an assault, and didn't count on the other guy being armed. Of course, those details will be ignored and distorted by all the professional whiners like Jesse and Al, and anyone who tries to deal with facts instead of emotions will be demonized as a racist. Check out some of the facebook posts that are surfacing about this so-called "child". He's a vulgar piece of teenage crap, in my opinion! He was also found with burglary tools and pieces of women's jewelry recently, but the police lacked enough evidence for an arrest. It sounds like the community watch guy might have been right all along to be suspicious.
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • rallykidrallykid Senior Member Posts: 657 Senior Member
    I still find it interesting that the media and protestors are calling this a racist white on black killing when Zimmerman is Hispanic.
    No, I do not have a pink fuzzy bunny fetish but apparently my Facebook hacking wife does.
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,051 Senior Member
    "Hispanic is not a race. It's an ethnicity." That's what some will say.

    Zimmerman is evidently of mixed-race, with black family members. However, his alleged racial slur isn't helping things for him.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • JerryBobCoJerryBobCo Senior Member Posts: 6,482 Senior Member
    rallykid wrote: »
    I still find it interesting that the media and protestors are calling this a racist white on black killing when Zimmerman is Hispanic.

    The NY Times called him a 'white Hispanic'.

    Another thing that the media, at least Fox News, is doing to stir this up is to use the picture of the black kid that was taken when he was 12. He was 16 when the incident occurred, and 6'2" tall.
    Jerry

    Gun control laws make about as much sense as taking ex-lax to cure a cough.
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    Zimmerman's side of the story is breaking. The Tampabay Times front page story concerns the Orlando Sentinel report that Martin, unprovoked, punched Zimmerman in the nose, Zimmerman went down, then Martin jumped on top of Zimmerman and "slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered". It was Zimmerman crying out for help during the attack. At some point in the beating, Zimmerman shot Martin once, killing him. The Sentinel hints strongly that this is Zimmerman's story to the Sanford PD, gotten from unnamed (unathorized) police sources. There are witnesses (at least one) who support this.
    It is fact (a Sanford PD police report I have a copy of) that Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and from the back of his head when LE arrived. He also had grass stains and wetness from the grass on the back of his clothing.
    I researched Florida law, and if Martin's attack was a felony battery in progress, then Zimmerman's use of deadly force to stop the attack was justifiable homicide. The "stand your ground" law is not a factor under these circumstances. We'll see, there will be more.
  • AiredaleAiredale Banned Posts: 624 Senior Member
    A lot of trouble could have been avoided if the Sanford police had made a public statement about this case.
    I agree with you, Jerry, that the photo of that kid just didn't fit.
    At first, I thought that this was a case of an over zealous cop wannabee, but as more info comes in, I'm leaning the other way.
    Jim
  • JermanatorJermanator Senior Member Posts: 15,053 Senior Member
    That whole "rest of the story" looks like it will make Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, Black Panthers, and the justice department look like fools. I still don't think that the role of a neighborhood watch guy is to confront people directly, but it puts a whole new light on the situation.
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,459 Senior Member
    Some facts I've seen that the media has ignored....

    Zimmerman said Martin took off running, yet when he followed you can tell (he was still on phone with dispatcher) he wasn't running. Does that sound like he was trying to catch/ apprehend? Or just see where he went?

    ABC News found a (unreliable) witness who said Martin was screaming and the police corrected/ coerced her testimony. She only heard the screams, there was another witness who saw the fight and knew it was Zimmerman. The police knew there was an eye witness and knew she was wrong, but noooooo it was a big conspiracy.... Three witnesses told ABC news it was Martin screaming, they were all wrong.

    Read several 'news' writers who claim, ''How would you react if you were being chased by man with a gun?'' If he was running, and Zimmerman was walking, is that a chase? The gun was concealed until Zimmerman was on the ground. The head of NAACP has said on camera that Trayvon was, "Chased down the street by an armed man and murdered''

    The 40 calls to 911 is incorrect. That was 45 calls since 2004, not 1 year as reported. In the HOA newsletter it states, ''If you are a victim of a crime, after calling the POlice, contact our neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman.'' Does that sound like he was ''Self-appointed''? Wouldn't a REAL Watch Captain call the police now and again? Also read where they weren't all 911 calls either, but to the regular poice line.

    Some of Zimmermans calls lead to criminals getting arrested (no specifics to this).

    During one of the 911 calls, you can hear Zimmerman screaming for almost a minute before the gun shot. That's a long time to take a beating.
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • jbp-ohiojbp-ohio Senior Member Posts: 9,459 Senior Member
    I wouldn't call this a legitimate news source, but can't be worse than MSNBC (who 'broke' this case open)... http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1939/020/Was_Trayvon_Martin_a_Drug_Dealer.html

    Finally, a recent picture.... Ax26X.jpg
    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." Thomas Jefferson
  • Big ChiefBig Chief Senior Member Posts: 32,985 Senior Member
    Skittles, I tell ya, Zimmerman wanted the kids Skittles:rotflmao::rotflmao::tooth: When Obammy said if he had a son it would look like Martin, I wish the momma would have said it is yours, don't you remember that encounter in Chicago years ago, where is my child support:devil:

    Jokes aside, I wish another young life hadn't been taken. All the anti 2A / CCW/Stand Your Ground FLA Law groups are shamelessly making hay off this tragedy with politicians/hucksters/race baiters like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton beating the race card drum before the investigation results are complete.
    It's only true if it's on this forum where opinions are facts and facts are opinions
    Words of wisdom from Big Chief: Flush twice, it's a long way to the Mess Hall
    I'd rather have my sister work in a whorehouse than own another Taurus!
  • snake284snake284 Senior Member Posts: 21,803 Senior Member
    Yeah, the main stream media neglected to tell the fact that Kid had attacked Zimmerman. Also, just because Zimmerman wasn't black no one mentioned that he was actually Hispanic. That didn't sit well with the race card version. Maybe Zimmerman is a Racist Pig, but it's not looking like it at this point. I never believe Jack the Media says. They are so biased and they spin everything the way they want. Remember, the left has an agenda and they tell lies and spin stories to propagate this agenda.
    Daddy, what's an enabler?
    Son that's somebody with nothing to do with his time but keep me in trouble with mom.
  • 1965Jeff1965Jeff Senior Member Posts: 1,597 Senior Member
    It will be interesting to see what kind of back-pedalling we will see after this info soaks in, first impressions are often correct. What would your reaction be if you got your nose broke from a sucker punch?
  • TeachTeach Senior Member Posts: 18,263 Senior Member
    jbp-ohio wrote: »
    Finally, a recent picture....

    That picture has been heavily cropped- - - -in its full form he's flipping the one-fingered salute with both hands. Before the kid's Facebook page was deleted, he's striking a gangsta-style pose in that pic, and his handle is vulgar and offensive, also!
    Jerry
    Hide and wail in terror, Eloi- - - -We Morlocks are on the hunt!
    ASK-HOLE Someone who asks for advice and always does something opposite
  • SlanteyedshootistSlanteyedshootist Senior Member Posts: 3,947 Senior Member
    Jermanator wrote: »
    That whole "rest of the story" looks like it will make Sharpton, Jackson, Obama, Black Panthers, and the justice department look like fools. I still don't think that the role of a neighborhood watch guy is to confront people directly, but it puts a whole new light on the situation.

    Them folks already looked like fools.

    Now, Trayvon's mom is trying to trademark "I am Trayvon" and "Justice for Trayvon". "To protect intellectual property rightsfor use in projects to help other families in similar situations." Okay. Deeper and deeper it gets. Scuba will soon be warranted.
    The answer to 1984 is 1776
  • DoctorWhoDoctorWho Senior Member Posts: 9,496 Senior Member
    All that is needed now is for Elton John to re-write that old song for Trayvon, he has re-written it once already.

    Original song about Norma Jean / Marilyn Monroe
    Re-written for Princess Diana
    For Trayvon
    "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor, even you, the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say, you do not improve with age. Founding member of the G&A forum since 1996
  • joseph06joseph06 Member Posts: 133 Member
    Teach wrote: »
    That picture has been heavily cropped- - - -in its full form he's flipping the one-fingered salute with both hands. Before the kid's Facebook page was deleted, he's striking a gangsta-style pose in that pic, and his handle is vulgar and offensive, also!
    Jerry

    I'm not certain of the source, but I thought I saw that that picture (flipping the bird) wasn't actually Martin, but one of his friends.

    Way too much bad information in this cse, and whatever the outcome, I don't think the truth will ever fully come out.
  • KSU FirefighterKSU Firefighter Senior Member Posts: 3,245 Senior Member
    Zimmerman screwed up when he got out of his car, Martin screwed up when he continued to beat on a fat guy with a gun. Both of them should have retreated from the confrontation. Everyone trying to make hay out of this for their own gain ought to be ashamed of themselves.
    The fire service needs a "culture of extinguishment not safety" Ray McCormack FDNY
  • JamesAPrattIIIJamesAPrattIII Member Posts: 154 Member
    I hope Zimmermann gets himself a REALLY good lawyer to defend him. he has been demonized by the MSM, the anti-gun types and the race baiters. What has happened to him so far can almost called cruel and unusual punishment. if he goes to trial in local criminal court and is found not guilty. Rioting will most likely break out and then the Feds will try him. If he is found not guilty again he will most likely get the pants sued off of him be some ambulance chasing lawyer. Meanwhile, the Black Panthers have a bounty on his head. If he ever ends up in prison he will have to be put in protective custody because if he ever ends up in General Population he will most likely be murdered. it looks like this was a legitamate case for self defense. Martin did attack him.
  • JeeperJeeper Senior Member Posts: 2,952 Senior Member
    Zimmerman screwed up when he got out of his car, Martin screwed up when he continued to beat on a fat guy with a gun. Both of them should have retreated from the confrontation. Everyone trying to make hay out of this for their own gain ought to be ashamed of themselves.

    That's about my take on it. Both were at fault to some extent.

    Luis
    Wielding the Hammer of Thor first requires you to lift and carry the Hammer of Thor. - Bigslug
  • ADRidgeADRidge Member Posts: 173 Member
    Jeeper wrote: »
    That's about my take on it. Both were at fault to some extent.

    Luis

    Pretty much. Either way, my understanding of the Texas version of that law is this... if you initiate an encounter that ends up with someone beating you senseless, and you have to shoot to stop the threat, it's still your fault. If I harass some guy on the street and he ends up beating me within an inch of my life for my trouble, if I shoot him it's still murder.

    But whatever.
    In space no one can hear you scream... but if you put a helicopter up there, some jerk would complain about the noise!
  • Mike S.Mike S. New Member Posts: 17 New Member
    Them folks already looked like fools.

    Now, Trayvon's mom is trying to trademark "I am Trayvon" and "Justice for Trayvon". "To protect intellectual property rightsfor use in projects to help other families in similar situations." Okay. Deeper and deeper it gets. Scuba will soon be warranted.

    BINGO. It has always been painfully obvious that many are looking ultimately to "get$ paid" at the end of all this protesting and indignation. I doubt many involved in the uproar have altruistic intentions at the heart of it, whatever the facts uncover about what really happened.
    "The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.”- Thomas Jefferson
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,051 Senior Member
    The teeth are fake.

    BTW, HOW one asks what someone's doing in your neighborhood (and any comments said after that) can be just as likely to escalate the situation. Not saying Zimmerman did that, but it helps to learn from other situations.
    Overkill is underrated.
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    Nice gold teeth. I would have asked him what he was doing in my neighborhood too and it would have nothing to do with race...

    THANK YOU!!!! Thugs come in ALL sizes and colors. I don't care what color you are, you dress like a thug, you will get treated like one. A white boy dressed like a thug will get treated just the sane as a black boy who dresses like a thug.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • SirGeorgeKillianSirGeorgeKillian Senior Member Posts: 5,458 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I know, but I've never seen a set on a boy scout looking to help grandmas cross streets. Yeah I know it's profiling. I'm Ok with that...

    Right, it is profiling, but it has nothing to do with race. The media is completely oblivious to the fact that the words "racial" and "profiling" can be used separately of each other.
    Unless life also hands you water and sugar, your lemonade is gonna suck!
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I'm in love with a Glock
  • breamfisherbreamfisher Senior Member Posts: 13,051 Senior Member
    Wambli Ska wrote: »
    I know, but I've never seen a set on a boy scout looking to help grandmas cross streets. Yeah I know it's profiling. I'm Ok with that...

    He's trying to look tough. Kinda like the teenagers who get fake tatoos, or dress tough.

    In the end they just look stupid...
    Overkill is underrated.
  • blueslide88blueslide88 Member Posts: 273 Member
    The problem, Wambi, is that the facts are just coming out, and not getting much publicity. Zimmerman's father was on Hannity last night, with Zimmerma's two attorneys. According to Dad, his son was never the aggressor, it was Martin who approached him and asked if Zimmerman had a problem. Zimmerman responded that he didn't, and then Martin punched him square in the nose, breaking it, and causing Zimmerman to fall to the ground. Martin then pounced on Zimmerman, punching him and also hitting Zimmerman's head against the concrete sidewalk, while Zimmerman kept calling for help. That's as far as his father and attorney's went.
    There's another account somewhere that during all this, Martin went for Zimmerman's concealed pistol, which was still in its concealed location, but exposed during the tussle.
    All of this leads me to another part of Florida law, Chapter 782, HOMICIDE, which says:

    782.02 Justifiable use of deadly force.—The use of deadly force is justifiable when a person is resisting any attempt to murder such person or to commit any felony upon him or her or upon or in any dwelling house in which such person shall be.

    Please look it up. It has nothing to do with "stand your ground" or "duty to retreat", and I see no qualifying sections to modify or condition section 782.02.

    I bring this up because Zimmerman's story is consistent with this provision. He never confronted Martin, and was attacked without any significant provocation. Martin's physical attack was serious enough to constitute "felony battery" uppon Zimmerman, and therefore Zimmerman's use of deadly force qualifies as the "Justifiable use of deadly force" under section 782.02.
    We're assuming that there are sufficient witness to back up Zimmerman's story. I just don't see that 776.041 applies here. I would simply apply Chapter 776.012 which reads:

     Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
    (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

    (2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.


    What do you think? I wish I was a lawyer! I'd appreciate your feedback. I just want the truth, the rest will have to sort itself out.
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